The Crisis: State of Emergency and Supplied Jurisdiction.

D

Deleted member 149

Guest
As the n-sspx is causing more confusion in contradicting their former position, I am including here an article I wrote 2-years ago that is still pertainate for today. It was in reaction to Fr. Rostand's Post Falls (usa) conference where he denied the old-sspx for the new-sspx in his remark: "It is a matter of prudence (to be reconciled to conciliar Rome) and not Principle."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Crisis: State of Emergency and Supplied Jurisdiction.

This is a serious question that I think should be brought out to light some more.

This question on the state of emergency, and the fulfillment of the Church Law of Supplied Jurisdiction is really the main argument, the central argument, of the whole SSPX-ROME “practical agreement” issue. It is the major difference between us (the old SSPX) and FSSP, Campos, and the others. That is, we are safe from this conciliar apostasy by being safeguarded by the Canon Law / supplied jurisdiction and they are not!

For those who do not understand this crucial problem and crises of the SSPX (past and present), about the state of emergency / supplied jurisdiction, there are many articles written of this that you can do a search. (If anyone has a good link please drop it in. But let’s stay on this subject; it is important)

In brief, the state of emergency for a Catholic must be an objective hindrance, obstacle, eclipse, etc. of the normal means to receive the grace and sacraments from the Church. From this state of emergency there becomes a “state of need”. The church in her wisdom -God’s will- supplies for this need in Her Canon Law. In fact, it is the highest of all Church Law, for the salvation of souls, the Church gives a “supplied Jurisdiction” to overcome this obstacle to the priests, bishops, and the faithful for this emergency to allow you, or a priest, bishop etc., to receive and give the sacraments based on that need. This is what has been taught (mind you I wrote in brief) from the Society’s pulpits and conferences for years, especially since the 1988 consecrations of the 4-bishops.

So let’s continue what this Canon Law really means to every baptized soul and priest in this real state of emergency that exists since the errors and consequences of Vatican II, and why it is a matter of principle and not of prudence that Fr. Rostand wishes us to believe.

In a normal situation, the fact that anyone received the sacraments from a SSPX priest today, or yesterday, or tomorrow, including the SSPX priests and bishops administering them, is in open and direct “disobedience” to the local bishop in his jurisdiction of dioceses, and in open and direct “disobedience” to the Pope. Period! Ah…but a response immediately follows -it is not a normal situation- a state of emergency and supplied jurisdiction (…), you are absolutely correct! So then in following the higher Law of the Church, the Law of God, in this “apparent disobedience” it is done out of principle first, it is objective, for the greater good , then it is prudent to decide to follow it. First the Wisdom of Principle, then the act of prudence. Not the other way around!

So what does that mean in this present “practical agreement” SSPX-crises? Everything! And why are they looking for a “practical agreement” if there is still a state of emergency?

The SSPX leader’s stated premise to sign a practical agreement is in the General Chapters 6-conditions (Read them. They are eye opening.), which are very superficial and pragmatic to the real crises we are undergoing of the Faith.

So now the problem.

With the above being true, that when the SSPX does sign, if not already, a “practical/legal” agreement with conciliar Rome, the SSPX “loses for itself”, and all of the faithful under them, the protection of the Canon Law of “universal” supplied jurisdiction; regardless of the set-up of agreement. So, when the SSPX signs a “practical agreement” with conciliar Rome, you cannot say that the SSPX has “supplied jurisdiction” anymore when in fact, it doesn’t?

By a stroke of a pen, the SSPX is now legally absorbed in the conciliar structure. Like Campos and the others that have been effectively shut down and compromised; equals, modernist’s win. That’s what conciliar Rome really wants! Go play chess; sometimes for a strategy, you can give something up, so then you can come back to “check-mate” your opponent.

Question? Has anyone ever heard from those groups using the platform of “supplied jurisdiction” anymore? No! Because by signing a practical agreement they willfully went into the conciliar structure and implicitly/explicitly gave consent to a “legal normalcy” for themselves under a false premise and left behind the highest law of the church –the salvation of souls! The NSSPX will no longer be able to go “outside” of their “new legal jurisdiction”.

Here is the depth of this. This Canon Law of State of Necessity / Supplied Jurisdiction is there to protect you from anyone looking to destroy the faith of our Fathers, knowingly or unknowingly, locally or wholesale. Therefore, every baptized Catholic, including priests, and bishops, all over the world, are commissioned and obliged under obedience to God to follow this Good Law to protect yourselves from harm’s way. Further, a baptized Catholic, including priests, and bishops, have no right to hinder themselves, or another person from attaining this protection to receive the sacraments and graces the Church wishes to give.

Therefore, whatever practical or pragmatic “deal” with bells and whistles one wants to make with those who endanger the faith, regardless of personages: A). You have no right before God to put yourself in harm’s way. B). You have no right before God to put others in harm’s way. C). You have no right to put the True religion of God into another religion (conciliar/novus ordo religion). D). When you sign you lose the protection of the Canon Law. E). No faithful can follow you into that danger. F). You now no longer can help souls in the “freedom” of that protection without asking “permission” to the conciliar mechanism (…). And so on…

Do you get the danger of this new SSPX-crisis? This is not about a pretty badge of prelature, or a pride of recognition, or even fixing an “irregularity” -THIS IS ABOUT THE FAITH- PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

If you do follow the NSSPX into the danger of the conciliar mechanisms of the conciliar Rome, then you are in real schism to the true faith. Bluntly said!

So once the NSSPX signs the accord, it cannot “disobey” the orders to relocate here, go there, shut down there, and all of the rest of the modernist tactics (…).

So where can the faithful go so as not to be infected by this conciliar/ecumenical religion?

Thank God for the Catholic Resistance. This is certainly another entry -into another Catacomb.

Have faith. God will provide!

 
D

Deleted member 149

Guest
So as not to mix two-concepts together.

Some definitions:

State of Emergency: Exists by itself for any individual when there is no longer a possible means to receive the Faith, Morals, and or Sacraments from your local priest or ordinary bishop.

Supplied Jurisdiction: Exists, and is supplied from the Church herself, with or without the State of Emergency, for any priest, bishop, and or individual who needs to go outside of the normal jurisdiction to give or receive the grace necessary for the Faith, Morals, and or Sacraments.

“The salvation of souls is the highest Law of the Church."

The NATURE of the State of Emergency, and or, Supplied Jurisdiction only applies on an INDIVIDUAL case by case basis.

Example applied:

In regards to the sspx, they exist in the state of emergency; individually, and as a group. As bishops and priests, they do not have any jurisdiction. The bishops and priests only function to say the mass, preach the Faith, teach the Morals, and give the sacraments on a daily and individual case by case basis supplied to them from the Church herself –Supplied Jurisdiction- within the state of emergency they are in themselves, and for any individual who comes to them for help in the Faith.

State of Emergency: When a nsspx bishop or priest subjectively AGREES individually, or as a group, with the compromises and errors of Vatican II, as they are doing now, they are stating that the State of Emergency no longer applies to them; and they are no longer in objection to the reason and cause of that State of Emergency. Therefore, they need to place themselves within that conciliar church structure; no longer outside of it. When they do so, anyone who follows them will also be in that conciliar environment; which constitutes danger, and is an objective “state of emergency”; one cannot follow.

Supplied Jurisdiction: Is also objective, and is given to any bishop, priest, or faithful throughout the whole world, throughout time, and space, to give or receive the graces necessary for salvation. In regards to the sspx, as valid priests and bishops, they will always have supplied jurisdiction, with or without a state of emergency, with or without an ordinary jurisdiction being under a local diocese or the Pope; like any other priest or bishop to give the graces of salvation in any part of the world who asks for them out of necessity.

The issue that changes for the sspx under supplied jurisdiction when they sign a deal and go into the conciliar structure, is that they can no longer on their own individually, or exist as a group, to say Mass publicly or privately, ordain priests, consecrate bishops, preach the Faith, teach morals, give the sacraments in any NORMAL way; they need permission from the local ordinary. The sspx, like any other prelate, can only give the sacraments within supplied jurisdiction to an individual who asks of the individual priest, or bishop, out of necessity (from the individual's own state of emergency, accident, death, objective hindrance, or an undue obstacle, etc.); whether the individual goes “into” the priest’s ordinary structure, or the priest is traveling outside of their ordinary structure.

Therefore, for the sspx, the State of Emergency and the need to function within supplied jurisdiction in the fullness of the Catholic priesthood without permission, is over; like those in the Ecclesia Dei community. The sspx will be officially absorbed into the Modernist camp.

As far as the faithful who do not follow them, the crisis is still there in the State of Emergency as with Supplied Jurisdiction on an individual basis; and can subjectively still go to them for the sacraments, with or without their new conciliar position; however, you are objectively putting yourself in danger to that conciliar compromise and environment.

Therefore, there is absolutely every reason to be concerned about this; if not, then why not go today to the fssp, or to the other 8-Traditional communities within the Ecclesia Dei apparatus and compromises? If the answer is, No. Then there is a real concern and still a State of Emergency for the Faith and the faithful not to follow the nsspx into the dungeons of the dragon.

In our times, fidelity to the wholesomeness of the Catholic Faith is becoming rare; unfortunately, as is the road is narrow.

Thank God for the Catholic Resistance and the heroics of the standout priests and bishop who had not compromised.

So let us hang together; if not, we will hang separately.

God have mercy on us...and on them who persecute you.

 

cleopas

Well-Known Member
Thank you for retrieving your comments. This is the type of information that needs to be repeated over and over. This is exactly why Bishop Williamson and the priest(s), Fr. Pfieffer, Hewko, Chazal formed the SSPX-MC (known as the Resistance). This is about the "Faith". And the "Faith" is being compromised by the persistence of Menzingen and the continued talks with the Romans.

"The Faith is the submission of the intellect prompted by Grace, the will moved by Grace submitting to what God has revealed;

Unity in the same Doctrine (true unity;
Unity in the same government (i.e. the Pope);
Unity in the same sacrifice of the Mass;
Unity in the same seven sacraments."

Source: Fr. Hewko (16:06),

This needs to be what unites us. What unites us, yes, is the "Faith". Yet we need to remember, and not become lax, that the "Faith" is allowed to be fully exercised, and has been fully exercised, exactly because of the provisions provided by "State of Emergency and Supplied Jurisdiction".

"Stay united in the Faith" - Archbishop Lefebvre - Letter to the Four Bishops.

Christ must Reign
 

Admin

Administrator
Therefore, for the sspx, the State of Emergency and the need to function within supplied jurisdiction in the fullness of the Catholic priesthood without permission, is over; like those in the Ecclesia Dei community. The sspx will be officially absorbed into the Modernist camp.

As far as the faithful who do not follow them, the crisis is still there in the State of Emergency as with Supplied Jurisdiction on an individual basis; and can subjectively still go to them for the sacraments, with or without their new conciliar position; however, you are objectively putting yourself in danger to that conciliar compromise and environment.

Read more: The Crisis: State of Emergency and Supplied Jurisdiction.

Machabees, from this pewsitter's point of view you are saying that the neo-SSPX no longer has supplied jurisdiction due to the compromises made with Rome. For them the 'state of emergency' no longer exists. That, then, means that their congregations are no are no longer receiving it through the Sacraments they administer?????? This is a terrible situation! The expelled priests and Bishop Williamson continue demanding that, until Rome returns to tradition, we are in a state of emergency.... unlike Bishop Fellay who accepts 95% of the council. The 'resistance priests', who have rejected sedevacantism, stand on the same ground as did Archbishop Lefebvre but which has been abandoned by the neoSSPX virtually leaving the latter naked. I'm thinking of all those people with a foot in both camps (let alone the ones that never leave). I must conclude, therefore, that the reality is that when they attend the neoSSPX they are not receiving the Sacraments.

 
D

Deleted member 149

Guest
Admin said:
Therefore, for the sspx, the State of Emergency and the need to function within supplied jurisdiction in the fullness of the Catholic priesthood without permission, is over; like those in the Ecclesia Dei community. The sspx will be officially absorbed into the Modernist camp.

As far as the faithful who do not follow them, the crisis is still there in the State of Emergency as with Supplied Jurisdiction on an individual basis; and can subjectively still go to them for the sacraments, with or without their new conciliar position; however, you are objectively putting yourself in danger to that conciliar compromise and environment.

Read more: The Crisis: State of Emergency and Supplied Jurisdiction.

Machabees, from this pewsitter's point of view you are saying that the neo-SSPX no longer has supplied jurisdiction due to the compromises made with Rome. For them the 'state of emergency' no longer exists. That, then, means that their congregations are no are no longer receiving it through the Sacraments they administer?????? This is a terrible situation! The expelled priests and Bishop Williamson continue demanding that, until Rome returns to tradition, we are in a state of emergency.... unlike Bishop Fellay who accepts 95% of the council. The 'resistance priests', who have rejected sedevacantism, stand on the same ground as did Archbishop Lefebvre but which has been abandoned by the neoSSPX virtually leaving the latter naked. I'm thinking of all those people with a foot in both camps (let alone the ones that never leave). I must conclude, therefore, that the reality is that when they attend the neoSSPX they are not receiving the Sacraments.
For those who attend the n-sspx chapels, being aware that they are joined with the revolution of conciliar Rome, they accept and declare like the n-sspx, that their is no longer a state of necessity. Being now inside their conciliar system, one can still say that there is all kinds of corruption in the Vatican, like the Eclessia Dei crowd does, but the state of necessity for them is gone. They are effectively under obedience within that illusional conciliar-bubble.

To say it another way, because there is a state of necessity, we stayed away with Archbishop Lefebvre from the occasions of sin that would compromise our Faith. Because the n-sspx, and its aware followers, are going into reconciliation with the same occasions of sin they once said was off limits, they now declare through their actions of reconciliation that there is no longer a state of necessity to stay away from them; even though they can hoot and howl about unfairness and selected corruption.

The state of necessity is a real situation; either it is still there, or it is not. One must act accordingly. Neither can one have it both ways and flip-flop when speaking to a particular audience to gain their money and support.

So, even though the n-sspx is negating the state of necessity by their reconciliation with the very revolution that is causing the state of necessity, the good news for us in regards from not going along with them, is that the state of necessity still exists for us; and its following supplied jurisdiction still does provide for us the grace of salvation from the Church.

We need to see ourselves as real "pilgrims" within this crisis.

Thus, as the Sacrament is objective, we can receive the Sacraments from the n-sspx or any other local that has valid Sacraments administered in the Traditional Rite. But being aware that there is also another cause of the state of necessity that can emanate through bad DOCTRINE from the ones who administer. So is it wise to go and hear their [erroneous] sermons in order to receive the sacraments? Faith comes by hearing. One needs to be humble enough to know that we are too fallible to know the difference; especially those who are young in the Faith. As God knows the situation, some people therefore do not go to the occasions of sin to hear the [erroneous] sermon; if need be, they go to low Mass the next day to fulfill their obligation to honor and adore God; or do not go at all to a compromised environment due to the grave crisis that one's situation is in; along with giving their tithe to support the priests who are being faithful to the Traditional Faith; where ever those priests may be in the world.

It is our baptismal right to receive the True Sacraments from Priests of the Catholic Church, which they cannot hinder, less mortal sin; and one would receive this right on an individual basis, for each person, each time you need the Sacrament(s).

 

Admin

Administrator
Machabees said:
Admin said:

Machabees, from this pewsitter's point of view you are saying that the neo-SSPX no longer has supplied jurisdiction due to the compromises made with Rome. For them the 'state of emergency' no longer exists. That, then, means that their congregations are no are no longer receiving it through the Sacraments they administer?????? This is a terrible situation! The expelled priests and Bishop Williamson continue demanding that, until Rome returns to tradition, we are in a state of emergency.... unlike Bishop Fellay who accepts 95% of the council. The 'resistance priests', who have rejected sedevacantism, stand on the same ground as did Archbishop Lefebvre but which has been abandoned by the neoSSPX virtually leaving the latter naked. I'm thinking of all those people with a foot in both camps (let alone the ones that never leave). I must conclude, therefore, that the reality is that when they attend the neoSSPX they are not receiving the Sacraments.

For those who attend the n-sspx chapels, being aware that they are joined with the revolution of conciliar Rome, they accept and declare like the n-sspx, that their is no longer a state of necessity. Being now inside their conciliar system, one can still say that there is all kinds of corruption in the Vatican, like the Eclessia Dei crowd does, but the state of necessity for them is gone. They are effectively under obedience within that illusional conciliar-bubble.

To say it another way, because there is a state of necessity, we stayed away with Archbishop Lefebvre from the occasions of sin that would compromise our Faith. Because the n-sspx, and its aware followers, are going into reconciliation with the same occasions of sin they once said was off limits, they now declare through their actions of reconciliation that there is no longer a state of necessity to stay away from them; even though they can hoot and howl about unfairness and selected corruption.

The state of necessity is a real situation; either it is still there, or it is not. One must act accordingly. Neither can one have it both ways and flip-flop when speaking to a particular audience to gain their money and support.

So, even though the n-sspx is negating the state of necessity by their reconciliation with the very revolution that is causing the state of necessity, the good news for us in regards from not going along with them, is that the state of necessity still exists for us; and its following supplied jurisdiction still does provide for us the grace of salvation from the Church.

We need to see ourselves as real "pilgrims" within this crisis.

Thus, as the Sacrament is objective, we can receive the Sacraments from the n-sspx or any other local that has valid Sacraments administered in the Traditional Rite. But being aware that there is also another cause of the state of necessity that can emanate through bad DOCTRINE from the ones who administer. So is it wise to go and hear their [erroneous] sermons in order to receive the sacraments? Faith comes by hearing. One needs to be humble enough to know that we are too fallible to know the difference; especially those who are young in the Faith. As God knows the situation, some people therefore do not go to the occasions of sin to hear the [erroneous] sermon; if need be, they go to low Mass the next day to fulfill their obligation to honor and adore God; or do not go at all to a compromised environment due to the grave crisis that one's situation is in; along with giving their tithe to support the priests who are being faithful to the Traditional Faith; where ever those priests may be in the world.

It is our baptismal right to receive the True Sacraments from Priests of the Catholic Church, which they cannot hinder, less mortal sin; and one would receive this right on an individual basis, for each person, each time you need the Sacrament(s).

____________________________________________________________-


"Thus, as the Sacrament is objective, we can receive the Sacraments from the n-sspx or any other local that has valid Sacraments administered in the Traditional Rite."

This answers the next question that came to mind after my last post. That a validly ordained priest who does what the Church intends is offering a true Mass and valid Sacraments.

"For those who attend the n-sspx chapels, being aware that they are joined with the revolution of conciliar Rome, they accept and declare like the n-sspx, that their is no longer a state of necessity. Being now inside their conciliar system, one can still say that there is all kinds of corruption in the Vatican, like the Eclessia Dei crowd does, but the state of necessity for them is gone. They are effectively under obedience within that illusional conciliar-bubble."

So, this means, that IF neo-SSPX attendees are aware of being led into the counterfeit church then they should also know that 'supplied jurisdiction' no longer comes from God through their priests even though, for example, the Sacraments are OK. However, I would say that most of them prefer to remain in ignorance, thus leaving the responsibility fully and squarely on the shoulders of their leaders. This would indicate that there is a certain amount of complicity wouldn't it?
See: Quietism

"It is our baptismal right to receive the True Sacraments from Priests of the Catholic Church, which they cannot hinder, less mortal sin; and one would receive this right on an individual basis, for each person, each time you need the Sacrament(s)."

So - in the case of those who are aware of all that has been outlined, and which cannot be gainsaid, there is the individual responsibility before God to face the facts; to deny participation in the 'illusion' set up by leaders; to confront the pain and throw oneself on God's mercy (not resort to sedevacantism to escape the pain). This total dependence on God's Mercy is where the great saints found themselves isn't it? I believe that Archbishop Lefebvre found himself in this position when alone, he challenged the novelties emanating from Vat.II council. Such saints were divinely inspired under the threatening circumstances in which they found themselves (like the martyrs). They were virtually pinned down (crucified?) in their hearts to receive supernatural grace to strengthen them, imparting Wisdom and Knowledge needed in their unique situation(s); to surmount the errors and save souls.

This brings me to the fact that this is not about the SSPX exclusively.
Enemies of the church have tried, and succeeded in placing a red herring across the path of truth is<font color="e6194d">olating the SSPX and convincing the unwary that it is merely a sect<font color="e6194d">. Whereas the SSPX was founded to guide the whole Church. T<font color="e6194d">hose who valiantly carry on the archbishop's work have shown how it is now the individual responsibility </font>of each and every Catholic to play his/her part as a cell in the Body of Christ, the Church. Archbishop Lefebvre was a gift from God to the entire church.

Our devotional faith has taught me (and each individual Catholic) that Christ wishes to dwell in my heart; that my heart is to become a tabernacle of Christ; that His objective is to eventually leave His golden prison, transforming our hearts of stone into flesh and blood tabernacles which must first be prepared and purged of sin...hence the role of the Church.

A Scripture reading from the Old Testament:
</font>

"But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my law in their bowels, and I will write it in their heart: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least of them even to the greatest, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more".
Jeremiah 31 : 33-34

God will not permit us to be lost. He uses our enemies, as he uses the devil that indwells their pharisaic hearts, to bring about His Will. It was always His Will to bring Adam and Eve (and there prodigy) to this state. Original sin, and the devil's pride interfered believing that putting Christ to death would end any notion of God's accessibility to us.
But Christ has risen and conquered the death of body and soul. He lives on in His Church that was ably defended in our times by Archbishop Lefebvre.




</font>
 
D

Deleted member 149

Guest
Yes, to the above.

This crisis in the Church is certainly a chastisement for all four-corners of the world. It is meant to be an "individual responsibility before God to face the facts; to deny participation in the 'illusion' set up by [our selfishnesses]; to confront the pain and throw oneself on God's mercy (not resort to [whims or other religions] to escape the pain)."

The Old Testament shows this "individual responsibility"; the New Testament shows this; the crisis of Vatican II shows this; the crisis in Tradition from all of these groups leaving in selfishness to receive human comfort shows this; and this present crisis with the [Archbishop Lefebvre's] sspx and the Synod of immorality show this.

Our life is our own; and our judgement is our own.

St. Thomas Aquinas sums up his Summa by saying that we are judged by our love for God.

So the question is, are we serious to see the reality of God, who He is, and love Him unconditionally; as a baby beholding the eyes of his father.

Abba Father...

 
A

ajnc

Guest
It is strange that this issue has not been scrutinized in a forum like Cathinfo. In 2012 the SSPX mantra was "We need canonical jurisdiction", the reason given was that marvellous works for God could be done "within the Church". At that point, people should have queried the claim that the SSPX still had Supplied Jurisdiction. At present it seems that the SSPX wants to "witness the Faith strongly" within the Conciliar structure. I take it to mean that irrespective of what goes on in the Conciliar Church, the Society must be a part of it.The lifting of the excommunications by BXVI as an act of pardon, and the acceptance with thanks of this act on the part of the Society, would give an ordinary layman to understand, that the SSPX would henceforth cease it's "rebellion".
Taking all this into account, I wonder if Supplied Jurisdiction still applies. I am still an SSPXer.
 

Admin

Administrator
<div class="quote" source="/post/4539/thread" timestamp="1416027726" author="@ajnc"><div class="quote_body"><div class="quote_avatar_container"><div class="avatar-wrapper avatar_size_quote avatar-0">//images.proboards.com/v5/defaultavatar.png</div></div><div class="quote_header">Nov 15, 2014 5:02:06 GMT @ajnc said:</div>It is strange that this issue has not been scrutinized in a forum like Cathinfo. In 2012 the SSPX mantra was "We need canonical jurisdiction", the reason given was that marvellous works for God could be done "within the Church". At that point, people should have queried the claim that the SSPX still had Supplied Jurisdiction. At present it seems that the SSPX wants to "witness the Faith strongly" within the Conciliar structure. I take it to mean that irrespective of what goes on in the Conciliar Church, the Society must be a part of it.The lifting of the excommunications by BXVI as an act of pardon, and the acceptance with thanks of this act on the part of the Society, would give an ordinary layman to understand, that the SSPX would henceforth cease it's "rebellion".
Taking all this into account, I wonder if Supplied Jurisdiction still applies. I am still an SSPXer. <div class="quote_clear"></div></div></div>

There was some discussion Cathinfo exposed itself: anti-Catholic Resistance about changes in Cathinfo.
 
Top