Newsociety Thinking – I

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February 7, 2015

Newsociety Thinking – I

When Father Pfluger speaks, what do we hear?
The religion of man, the Council, loud and clear.


Towards the end of last year, the second-in-command of the Newsociety of St Pius X, Fr. Niklaus Pfluger, gave an interview to a Newsociety magazine in Germany, Der Gerade Weg, in which he answered seven questions ranging over the Church, Tradition, the “Resistance” and the XSPX. Given his important position, his thinking cannot be without interest. Its main lines are presented here below, and then its main flaw.
The Catholic Church is broad, much broader than just the Traditional movement. This movement began in the 1970’s as an understandable reaction of Catholics rendered homeless by the Conciliar revolution, but we will never make Tradition attractive or convincing if we remain mentally stuck in the 1950’s or 1970’s. Catholic Tradition is a vast treasure, not to be confined within the condemnations, which were routine in the 19th and 20th centuries, of modernism, liberalism and Freemasonry. In the 1970’s and 1980’s the SSPX did act as a lifeboat for souls drowning, but in 2014 “our time is different, we cannot stand still.” Church Tradition is one, but traditions are many, and much that is modern is not immoral.

So “we must continually re-position ourselves,” somewhere between denying that there is any crisis of modernism at all in the Church, and denying Church reality, as does the “Resistance.” They turn a purely practical problem of re-positioning into a question of faith, but that “faith” is a fabrication of their own, subjective, personal and in extreme denial of reality — how can Rome not be Catholic? How can Bishop Fellay be Enemy Number One? Ridiculous! The “Resistance” is sectarian, narrow-minded, evil-spirited and divisive.

As for SSPXHQ having betrayed Tradition in 2012, its actions were attacked from both sides, so it acted with reasonable moderation. Its texts were not dogmatic, just responding to circumstances. It did depart from General Chapter decisions of 2006, but who back then could imagine how much less aggressive towards the SSPX Rome would become by 2012? In 2014 our three bishops could all celebrate public Masses in the Basilica of Lourdes!

In brief, the SSPX follows the Spirit, It draws on Tradition. It saved the liturgy (thanks to Archbishop Lefebvre). It is neither monopolistic, nor as disunited or defeated as it may seem. Storms in the Church do continue, but down with conspiracy theories and Apocalypticism, and up with faith, hope and a new youth! (See francefidele.org for the original in German, and a French translation; see abplefebvreforums or cathinfo.com for an English translation)
So where is the flaw in Fr Pfluger’s thinking? It is most clearly seen in the first paragraph above, where he suggests that Tradition can thrive outside of the “19th and 20th century condemnations of modernism, liberalism and Freemasonry.” For Fr Pfluger, as for all liberals, these condemnations are not integral to the Catholic Faith but merely “substantial anchorages” (Cardinal Ratzinger’s own expression), which in a different age the ship of the Church can leave behind, as corresponding no longer to the different circumstances. Therefore if Fr Pfluger does not have a different faith from that of Archbishop Lefebvre, Pius IX, St Pius X, Pius XII, etc., he certainly has a different concept of that Faith, and that different concept underlies all his remarks in the interview quoted.

Thus the problem is much more than just “practical re-positioning.” Today’s Rome is indeed not Catholic. Bishop Fellay is a huge problem. The 2006 General Chapter was implicitly dogmatic. Tradition is not to be made attractive to men, but true to God (mentioned only once, passingly, in the interview). The “Resistance” is far fr om creating its own “faith.” And so on and so on.

Kyrie eleison


See :
Split or not to be Split?
 
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ajnc

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Bp.W: (See francefidele.org for the original in German, and a French translation; see abplefebvreforums or cathinfo.com for an English translation)

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It was UNBRANDABLE who translated ( the first non-Google version) Fr Pfluger's interview and posted it on Cor-Mariae on 26th January.
 
D

Deleted member 149

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Bp.W: (See francefidele.org for the original in German, and a French translation; see abplefebvreforums or cathinfo.com for an English translation)

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It was UNBRANDABLE who translated ( the first non-Google version) Fr Pfluger's interview and posted it on Cor-Mariae on 26th January. If one was to follow Bp.W "advice and encouragement" to find the english translation, he is stating that he had seen it there at those two sites.

Lets see what you find:

Archbishop Lefebvre forums
Posted by BrJoseph
Jan 28, 2015 at 3:16am

Interview with Father Pfluger

English translation follows the original
Cathinfo
Posted by BrJoseph
Jan 28, 2015, 11:17 am

cor-mariae.com/thread/3120/interview-father-pfluger

English translation follows the original
Has anyone noticed the obvious in what Bishop Williamson had seen...?

Why the blackout? Why the split?

Because it is obvious and stated with the censorship of those two sites in particular he mentioned, that they follow him as a personality, and not as a Mitered Bishop with Croiser.

At Cor-Mariae, it is well obvious and stated throughout that we faithfully follow and support Bishop Williamson as he is -a Mitered Bishop with Croiser; and ask him to lead the sheep in the path and unity laid out to him by Archbishop Lefebvre and the Holiness of the Church as he was commissioned to do with his Miter on and Crosier in hand at all times; no division from his loose federation of independent priests.

One and Unity are two marks of the four that begets Holiness and Apostolicity. Omitting one of them, the rest falls into confusion and turmoil.

Archbishop Lefebvre already showed us the path and sanctification to follow; we do not need to invent different ideologies and different paths.

Our Lady of Wisdom, pray for us...and pray for him.


[ETA: Matthew originally modified BrJoseph's link by removing the word "proboards" before .com; which brought you to a search engine with Cathinfo as the dominant link; now with the attention, he removed the "com" so as to be a blackout link. ? http: //cor-mariae./thread/3120/interview-father-pfluger ]
 
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cleopas

Well-Known Member
Your point is very interesting. I read Bishop Williamson's comment and the source of his information was puzzling. Why not give credit where credit is due?

There was a word missing in the link to cor-mariae in one of the posts, but the other one was perfect.


Br. Joseph's post on cathinfo shows this link for details, ://cor-mariae./thread/3120/interview-father-pfluger.

This link produces this result, This webpage is not availableReloadDetails

"AJNC"
points this out, For those who have difficulty linking up with Cor-Mariae ( as I did ) here is the English translation mentioned above, posted by Unbrandable on Cor-Mariae.

The correct link should have read, .proboards.com/thread/3120/interview-father-pfluger



Br. Joseph's post on Archbishop Lefebvre Forum is correct and works perfectly.

Jan 28, 2015 at 3:16am QuotePost Options Post by BrJoseph on Jan 28, 2015 at 3:16am

cor-mariae.proboards.com/thread/3120/interview-father-pfluger

English translation follows the original
 

Admin

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There was a word missing in the link to cor-mariae in one of the posts, but the other one was perfect.
I believe it is a deliberate omission Cleopas. Let me explain: I used to post now and then on CathInfo...sometimes giving this link to save me the trouble of reposting a lengthy article. Time and time again I tested the link which changed between the actual writing of the post and its publication after pressing the 'submit' button. It always worked before it was submitted. This happened every time. I was not trying to promote Cor Mariae or compete - it just saved time and was more convenient to do it that way. So I spelt out the Cor Mariae link covering about four lines because I thought it was a hiccup in the system...until I contacted Matthew and asked him about it pointing out the mistake of which he may not have been aware. He did not reply. Then I appealed to him publicly in case he had not seen my PM. No reply. I have therefore reached the conclusion that it is deliberate.


 
D

Deleted member 149

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Admin said:
There was a word missing in the link to cor-mariae in one of the posts, but the other one was perfect.
I believe it is a deliberate omission Cleopas. Let me explain: I used to post now and then on CathInfo...sometimes giving this link to save me the trouble of reposting a lengthy article. Time and time again I tested the link which changed between the actual writing of the post and its publication after pressing the 'submit' button. It always worked before it was submitted. This happened every time. I was not trying to promote Cor Mariae or compete - it just saved time and was more convenient to do it that way. So I spelt out the Cor Mariae link covering about four lines because I thought it was a hiccup in the system...until I contacted Matthew and asked him about it pointing out the mistake of which he may not have been aware. He did not reply. Then I appealed to him publicly in case he had not seen my PM. No reply. I have therefore reached the conclusion that it is deliberate.
Matthew at Cathinfo had stated many times that he does not allow what he calls competition on his site; as if the cause of the Catholic Faith is at competition. He feels that he wants to be the ONLY source of catholic news; sorry for him, the Holy Spirit moves as He wills.

Matthew stated, as being a computer guru, that he programed any site he wants blacked out, with targeting the http:// to either cause it to fail its destination or cause a direct link back to himself at Cathinfo.

Until he discovers that he is not the cats-meow in life, nor as a unique place of redemption, he keeps losing respect as a reliable site; such is why there is an exodus over the last year with his banning of the Catholic Resistance so as to morph into his spirit of trad-ecumenism.

 
D

Deleted member 149

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What I also find interesting over this latest news, is that the Good God had provided to the english Catholic Resistance for our knowledge and discernment of Fr. Pluger's outrageous remarks on Interview with Father Pfluger, then posted on the other two sites on Jan 28, 2015 by BrJoseph that inevitably showed no real reaction from them.

A). Organic Truth did not touch [their] receptors when first announced.
B). On Feb. 7, 2015, Bishop Williamson mentions a small amount of it, told them to look at it, and now those two boards are acting like cheerleaders.
C). People are fickle and easily swayed with emotion and group thought.
D). The road continues to be bumpy and rough with narcissus behavior.
E). Souls needs to be lead back to concrete thoughts and mortified lives.

Watch and pray says our Lord...the men of the world are clever and know how to distract and burn up your oil.

 

Admin

Administrator
Did anyone else see this from another website? It would be good if someone could verify it. This Bishop was installed in mid-December in Boise, Idaho.

"I just received an email describing that while Fr. Pfeiffer was in Post Falls today and giving a Q&A conference after the Mass, one of the people there stated that Fr. William Kimball of the SSPX Post Falls Priory went on assignment to the Dioceses of Boise to represent the SSPX and support the new installation of the new Novus Ordo Bishop Peter F. Christensen; who came from the Diocese of Superior, Wisconsin, U.S.A.

See also the humanistic contents of his former Diocesan website here.

Aggiornamento (update for Vatican II) all over again...

Additionally as reported, the SSPX Post Falls Prior, Fr. Vassal, is to meet with the new Bishop Christensen at the local Post Falls FSSP chapel. Collaborated with one of Fr. Vassal's recent sermons was given in dedication to the support of the new Bishop of Boise."

Read more: The link does not display (??)
I tried again below where it says Read more: You will see it comes up vacant.

Machabees post quoted above SSPX Represented to Install Novus Ordo Bishop) has been displayed on CathInfo giving the link as:

Read more:


Source: www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/SSPX-priest-sent-to-NO-Bishops-installation


 
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ajnc

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I think it is for some technical reason that Cathinfo and Cor-Mariae (Proboards) links dont work with one another.AbpL Forums and Cor-Mariae links work fine with one another because they are both Proboards. Some Youtube links when posted on Cathinfo also do not work.
 

Admin

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<div class="quote" source="/post/5171/thread" timestamp="1423546165" author="@ajnc"><div class="quote_body"><div class="quote_avatar_container"><div class="avatar-wrapper avatar_size_quote avatar-0">//images.proboards.com/v5/defaultavatar.png</div></div><div class="quote_header">Feb 10, 2015 5:29:25 GMT @ajnc said:</div>I think it is for some technical reason that Cathinfo and Cor-Mariae (Proboards) links dont work with one another.AbpL Forums and Cor-Mariae links work fine with one another because they are both Proboards. Some Youtube links when posted on Cathinfo also do not work. <div class="quote_clear"></div></div></div>
Yes, that is what I thought too. So to make sure I contacted Matthew more than once. Being 'proboards' doesn't make any difference ajnc. Cor Mariae's link comes up on all other websites, no problem...and vice versa.

This thread endeavoured to answer your initial urging that we should post on CathInfo...it was merely to inform you of our attempts to do so.....nothing more. //images.proboards.com/v5/smiley/smiley.png


 
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