Summary of the current position of Our Lady of the Southern Cross

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Michael1, May 16, 2018.

  1. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel Well-Known Member

    There is something not being told here and you sweep it under the rug. The bigger part of this picture is the sentence from your mission statement that said, OLSC put themselves under no priestly authority?
    That's the heart of the issue. It disappeared. No explanation.
    Reading between the lines in this thread and the locked thread on the mission statement is that problem. Even though it disappeared after poster nick questioned it without explanation. It seems pretty obvious that between your group and Fr. Pfeiffer it did not get resolved. Do you still reject priestly authority or not? If that was unsolved between your group and Fr. Pfeiffer, it stands to reason that he would cancel Mass, because you want to dictate to him and he won't let you.
    Just because you erase the sentence on the forum but to Fr. Pfeiffer still reject his authority, then you are being deceitful to say he arbitrarily cancelled Mass. He has a reason and has St. Pius X to back him up.
    You write that the ultimatum is the issue, but I think not.

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    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2018
  2. Admin

    Admin Moderator Staff Member


    As mere human beings, thoughts and ideas can only be communicated to neighbours/friends/enemies in words. It is unavoidable that each one of us has to interpret first the understanding of what another has written. Then each one of us has to find the words to interpret each others interpretation. It goes on and on so that, as seen above, in the various takes on what was clearly stated in the essay. People from all over the world, who were not present advise us:

    • to contemplate this or that passage of scripture
    • to help us understand what we experienced first hand
    • to trust in God
    The only advice I offer is please do not treat the priest as if he is God. It has been said to us:

    “if there is a choice between believing you or believing the priest - no question, we believe the priest”.
    In order to believe the priest, one has to be present to hear what he said and did. Yet, without being there, without knowing what he said and did, those who did see what he said and suffered personally from what he did - they do not matter. You HAVE to obey the priest even though we do not know what he said! Come under his authority and his authority alone, to the exclusion of other good priests.

    To sum up:
    Words above show that many members have already made up their minds that it is we who have faulted. It has not occurred to them that everything we have said is true because a priest cannot be wrong, so we must be. Having that under their belts they reach out to help us see the light (that they may not have let into their own souls). So they conclude with passages of scripture for us to contemplate.

    By judging us and/or our motives, the deadly seriousness of what we are
    trying to expose is being covered up
    .​

    We do not care about the personal unjust/malicious attacks we have received. When souls have been placed at risk that is a different matter. In failing to give credence to this, all the misguided loyalty to Father Pfeiffer masks the perilous state of souls that he has left high and dry. Who benefits from that? Our Lord and Saviour or his Enemy? Unless you apply the same test to yourself as you demand of us you will not believe that Father has abandoned souls he remains responsible for.

    Automatically we have been disbelieved and judged with the result that more people get into the action with even more interpretations. I am now putting a stop to that, knowing full well that I will be accused of stifling debate. The whole point is that this is not a debate.

    Make no mistake about the fact that we are totally biased. It happened. There is only one version.

    A priest has abandoned souls for which he remains responsible. Such souls are returning to the situation they were in and from which Father had begun to rescue them. He allows no reasonable questions. Everyone must obey him or he will not hear their confessions or provide them with the Sacraments, thus not merely abandoning them but holding them to ransom as well. They have been punished already by the next Mass arbitrarily cancelled by said priest - punished for a fault not yet committed. This has happened in real time to real people. We tell you about it because the priest continues to get people in with his brilliant doctrinal sermons, then once captured, the trap is sprung.

    You are now my parish, I am your parish priest, no other priests are allowed to visit you even good priests.
    In short he is a loose cannon accountable to no-one. Be warned all who take no notice.

    In conclusion
    We state that we already belong to a true parish subject to the authority of our local Bishop. whom, as said above, we disobey until Rome returns to the Catholic faith.

    Until the priesthood is united under a faithful Pope all of them, without exception, are creating their own little ‘parishes’ with their own flocks who are happy to obey him in order to receive the Sacraments.

    We have done our bit. We can do no more. This thread is being closed temporarily. Admin


    Post Script:
    In a scholarly article on another forum the point being made is that supplied jurisdiction to the traditional priest, and the virtue of recognising that, means that the laity should obey such priests.


    So, lets put it to the test -
    All SSPX priests are traditional priests
    All FSSP are traditional priests
    All true resistance priests are traditional priests
    All false resistance priests are traditional priests.
    All ecclesia dei priests are traditional priests

    So the article is saying that we should obey any one of those priests. Just take your pick. Trouble is people are taking their pick.

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    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  3. Admin

    Admin Moderator Staff Member

    Scarlet Pimpernel said:
    Where in the Mission Statement does it say they 'put themselves under no priestly authority?


    Mission Statement

    On Sunday 17th January, 2016 our community, formerly known as "the Victorian Resistance" has been officially renamed "Our Lady of the Southern Cross"

    We are a lay community of Catholics in Victoria who organise our own activities in religious fellowship, group prayers, social and charitable activities. We resist whatever interferes with our faith, supported by the catechism of our childhood. If faced with an order putting our faith in danger of corruption we have an overriding duty to disobey.

    We acknowledge and recognise Pope Francis as Vicar of Christ on earth.

    We make our own, the statement of
    Archbishop LeFebvre who asked Rome:

    Do you agree with the great encyclicals of all the popes who preceded you? Do you agree with Quanta Cura of Pius IX, Immortale Dei and Libertas of Leo XIII, Pascendi Gregis of Pius X, Quas Primas of Pius XI, Humani Generis of Pius XII? Are you in full communion with these Popes and their teachings? Do you still accept the entire Anti-Modernist Oath? Are you in favor of the social reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ? (Archbishop Lefebvre, Interview with Fideliter Magazine, 1988)

    We look forward to coordinating and sponsoring priests who are faithful to the traditional teachings of the Catholic Faith and who continue to fight for Rome to be restored to the true faith of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    ________________________________

    If you are referring to the then subsequently deleted line that said we refuse to put ourselves under the “exclusive authority of one priest” it goes on to say that we are open to all true resistance priests.

    It was removed not because it was incorrect. It was removed because I spoke as a member.

    It is still our position. We will remain open to other visiting true resistance priests who are doctrinally sound. We have never ceased being open to Father Pfeiffer but not to him exclusively. We cannot accept that ultimatum. We never stopped accepting that priest.

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    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  4. Admin

    Admin Moderator Staff Member

    From my Mailbox:

    I feel I have to share my own experience and that of my family with Fr. J. Pfeiffer with you since what you write in your announcement, it all sounds familiar to me.

    Shortly after Fr. J. Pfeiffer was kicked out of the fraternity my husband and I invited him to come over to Germany in order to speak about the whole issue and the circumstances of the changes that were going on in the SSPX.

    We then informed several other fellow-Catholics of the priory who were somewhat irritated by the rumors and invited them to attend the conference, to get the facts.

    Prior to his arrival I informed Fr. J. Pfeiffer, that there was no possibility to say mass in our apartment which was in a mess at the time because of our recent move to the new location. I therefore asked him to say his morning mass before leaving Switzerland where he was staying. When Fr. J. Pfeiffer arrived in the evening he told us to prepare for mass since he intended to say mass before giving his conference. He made it very clear that he would not be willing to give any talk unless the people to attend would show their unity with him by participating in HIS mass. He said that people who wanted to hear his talk had to go to his mass first, demonstrating, that they were in line with him and against the SSPX. Now that was very confusing since he was in our apartment but the meeting was to take place in my office which belonged to the company I worked for. He then insisted to say mass in the office and I could hardly convince him that that was absolutely out of the question.

    Being late already we rushed to my office where app. 20 people were waiting, including one SSPX-priest. After the talk I could arrange that our landlords who were also present at the conference, provided a room for Fr. J. Pfeiffer in order to say his mass and I myself told father about the fact, that there would be a room for him on the 4th floor (I told him twice, first, as soon as I had arranged it and second, when he was leaving the conference). After the conference my son went with Fr. J. Pfeiffer to our apartment and wanted to take him to the room which was prepared for holy mass. Instead however, father insisted to go to our apartment, went straight into the kitchen which was in a mess, too, and began immediately saying mass on the kitchen counter, between pots and pans! When my husband and I arrived a couple of minutes later, I was in shock about what was going on. Our landlords who had prepared their living room for the mass were waiting in vain and I had a hard time to explain the situation to them. They never ever got interested in the whole resistance matter again, as a matter of fact, much to the contrary.

    The next day Fr. J. Pfeiffer left Germany after having instructed as about how to proceed in this crisis, not going to the priory anymore, etc.

    Later I found out (from friends in Great Britain), to my great astonishment, that Fr. J. Pfeiffer had reported to them, that he had to say mass in our kitchen because we did not care to prepare a proper room. I certainly tried to tell them the facts but they would not believe me but rather the priest’s narrative, of course, who wouldn’t?

    I actually could go on and on with first-hand-stories like this one (Pablo=huge problem!!!) but I am not in the gossip business. I think however that it is legitimate, to share one’s concern and sorrow with fellow-Catholics who are likewise concerned, offended and scandalized. The difficulties in this unprecedented crisis are getting worse by the day and there is so much confusion about who you can trust, I mean really trust 100%, in order to stay 100% Catholic.

    I thank you very much for your apostolate; you are a model of true Catholic warriors. Once again, the wheat gets separated from the chaff.

    Let us pray for the priests who mean well but are in a mess themselves, who want to keep up the good work of our dear archbishop Marcel Lefebvre but are being led astray themselves because of their pride and uncatholic arrogance and selfishness, for the priests who are fighting for the Catholic doctrine and tradition but bear no fruit because they lack the love for their sheep.

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    4olsquatter likes this.
  5. Admin

    Admin Moderator Staff Member

    I have thought about this a bit more. If the essay is read with an open mind the reader would have known the answer to this question without asking it. This thread was closed because people have read what has been said by putting their own interpretations on what happened when they were not even there. At the risk of still being disbelieved yet again I will give you an emphatic answer. I do not speak for anyone else.

    No I will not attend a Mass said by Fr. Pfeiffer even if it is next door. He demands I accept him as my parish priest. I already have a parish priest. In my true parish there are assistant parish priests. Father Pfeiffer rejects assistant parish priests bar one - Fr. Hewko. Only Fr. Pfeiffer's priests-to-come (seminarians) will be permitted by him to provide me with the Sacraments and even that depends on whether a Bishop will ordain them. He will only provide the Sacraments for me if I obey these commands. He is using OLMC for his own purposes - to set up mission centres as 'parishes' controlled exclusively by him with assistant priests trained by him. Then he caps the whole thing off by saying it is all Divine Law!

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    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  6. Mary

    Mary New Member

    I, Mary Collins, claim ownership of the first letter in the following post.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2018
  7. Michael1

    Michael1 Member

    Introduction:

    From the start OLSC made every effort to deal with matters privately - that is until false interpretations of the facts began to surface publicly. Below is the full dialogue that took place and which is self-explanatory. Already slow to respond to the false information Father Pfeiffer is providing elsewhere we realised that if we remained silent other communities could fall prey to the same tactics.

    1. The first letter in this post was originally written to Father Pfeiffer privately to sort out the problems caused when he organised Father Hewko’s Australian time table in early 2018. The Adelaide co-ordinator, author of the first letter, sought advice from Fr. Hewko at the time. Following his advice, she wrote to Fr. Pfeiffer about the chaos that resulted.

    2. The second letter is Father Pfeiffer’s response to the first letter.

    3. I wrote the third letter when requested by Mary to do so on her behalf.

    Previously, there were issues developing between the OLSC and Father Pfeiffer in Australia but what takes place in these three emails brings the problems to the surface.

    Future information will get to the heart of the problem.

    Yours in JMJ,
    Luke Ross
    OLSC Coordinator

    ________________________________

    Email 1

    I, Mary Collins, wrote the following letter to Father Pfeiffer:
    On Mar 8, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Mary Collins <email withheld > wrote:

    Dear Father

    Thank you for allowing Father Hewko to visit our shores recently. It was a delight to have him back in Australia, and we would dearly love to have him visit again on a regular basis.

    Whilst it was such a blessing to have Father Hewko here, the organisational side of Fathers' visit was far from satisfactory. In fact it was an utter mess. It caused a lot of unnecessary worry and angst, and quite simply, did not work. Whilst I understand the funeral in Brisbane caused an unpreventable and unexpected change to the schedule, the remainder of the visit could have been run in a much smoother manner. And besides, the anguish of not knowing what was going on had set in even well before the funeral even became an issue.

    In Adelaide for example we did were not able to confirm Mass times until the morning of Father's arrival, as we were not advised of his airline schedules until that morning. This is not conducive to attracting newcomers to Mass, and nor can people plan ahead to set time aside for Mass. Not only that, people were not able to attend Mass because of the late start time. Father flew in to Adelaide from Canberra on a later flight - there were earlier flight options in from Canberra which could have been more accommodating to our requirements. I was receiving calls from Streaky Bay folk wondering what was going on...I could not tell them . I shudder to think what the expense would have been for booking a late ticket for Fathers' onward journey to Port Lincoln from Adelaide. There would have been another cheaper alternative (airport) for Father to fly on to in lieu of Port Lincoln given the lateness of the booking of tickets....of course you would not have been aware of this, but if the bookings were done using local knowledge, then it could have been applied.

    Prior to Father's arrival in Australia I had been in contact with our Coordinator Luke Ross to ascertain what was happening. Luke advised that he had not heard from you. I phoned Brisbane - (name witheld) who said she had been in contact with you. She explained she was trying to organise motel rooms for accommodation for Mass goers. Now we have had trouble collecting funds from the Brisbane group to put towards airfares (can't afford it has been the reason given), yet they are able to afford motel rooms? Surely renting a cheap hall would be a much more sensible arrangement. I agree with your policy that if group can't fund the priests visits, then this needs to be covered, as the priest still needs to visit them. This is something that Australia aims to do, however, if certain groups say they can't pay, when in actual fact they can pay, then that is a total different story.

    At the end of the day, as a visiting priest, it's the spiritual things that you need to be in charge of Father, not the practical. You and any other priest who come are visiting priests. We need the organisational and practical aspects of these visits to be done locally, using local knowledge. We have an honest and fair Australian coordinator in Luke Ross who has my full support - he is a valuable asset has done so much good, and we cannot not afford to lose him. He is very mindful of putting into place as best he can an itinerary which suits all groups requirements (taking into account advice received from each State Coordinator).

    Having the practical side of things done locally here in Australia will prevent unnecessary disgruntlement and disillusionment, (which is currently happening) , and it also will be conducive to attracting new comers, freeing up more time for you to do your spiritual duties, and also will help free up funds for your seminary.

    I hope this is helpful to you Father and will assist with the building of your missions.

    God Bless you and all the good work that you do.

    Kind Regards
    Mary Collins
    Adelaide
    Australia

    _________________________________

    Email 2

    From: Frj Pfeiffer [email address withheld]Sent: Friday, 30 March 2018 8:11 AM
    To: Mary Collins
    Subject: Re: Reply to Feedback Australia

    Dear Mrs. Collins,

    Thank you for your note of concern of a few weeks ago. You may not be aware of it but you touched on matters more important than you may realize. In fact it is a matter noted by Pope Leo XIII in his dream of the late 19th century when he saw that Satan would have an much greater power to destroy souls in the 20th century for around 100 years. We must be at the end of that period now. Leo XIII introduced a simple exercism prayer that could be used by any priest or faithful against the devil and he introduced the prayers after Low Mass including the invocation at the end of the St. Michael prayer “. . .and for the freedom and exsaltation of Holy Mother Church.” The word “freedom” refers to the Church being freed from Lay control.

    The Church has become more and more shackled in the last 500 years first by kings and governments and now by anyone. St. Thomas Becket was martyred because he would not accept lay interference into his diocese. One of his priests raped and murdered a girl. The Duke representing the king put him to death without Ecclesiastical trial. St. Thomas Becket excommunicated him for not waiting for the Church trial and Judgement. The Priest would have been executed anyway but by the Church not the State.

    The Catholic Church has always insisted on its autonomy from Lay control. The problem of Lay investiture and Caeseropapism was a battle of centuries. Pope Gregory II wrote “For as the priest has not power to enter the palace, and to distribute royal honors, so the prince has not power to enter the Church to make decrees amongst the clergy, to offer sacrifice, or to touch the symbols of the sacred mysteries, nor to participate thereof, without the priest. Let each of us remain in the calling in which we have been called by God [1 Cor 7:20].

    You mention in your letter a few points on which to comment.
    1. Orgnanization of the trip was mess
    - Commication was lacking The Coordinator was not properly informed but Brisbane was informed. The Trip was arranged only 2 weeks in advance, had to be adjusted due to funeral as well. This late scheduling happens most often here in USA due to lack of funds to buy tickets untl shortly before and complexity of scheduling 40 to 50 locations for Masses at least once every six or seven weeks. Having no repeatable schedule yet nescessitates myself still arranging the circuits with the interest of all the sheep in mind. OLMC also has the policy of charging no one and asking nothing from the souls we freely visit to help them keep the Faith and get to heaven. These policies have been an inconvenience for some and a great relief for many others. Our Lady has assisted us to date and it is my hope that she will continue to do so.

    - We have had trouble collecting funds from Brisbane for airfares due to their “lack of funds” Brisbane rented hotel rooms for the visit when they could have rented a cheap hall. Who is

    this “we”? The closest parishioner with a house for Father to stay in is only two and half hours drive from the Mass Venue. Should Father drive the 5 hours at night and in early morning to save funds for airfare that is not charged to them anyway? Should Father sleep outdoors to save funds instead of the drive? How much money do they have in Brisbane anyway? If a local can coordinate the details in Adelaide, Melbouurne etc. then why not Brisbane? Who should the donor(s) that paid for the motel and conference rooms report to for approval of their anonymous donation? You see the problem of one Mass group interfering with another. This is one reason it is wise to let each Mass Group coordinate with the Priest or his representative on these matters. Luke is My representative for the overall cross coordination of schedules and the like for Australia. He is doing a fine job. The individual coordinators works with Father for their respective places as well.

    • - Earlier flight from Canberra to Adelaide could have been caught which would have avoided making Mass too late for Adelaide and the Port Lincoln flight must have unbeknownst to Father been too expensive due to late purchasing of ticket. I purchased the ticket as early as I could and remember looking at the price before purchasing the ticket, the cost of which is charged to no one. I am sorry if it is excessive charge. If you need reimbursement for any expenses please let me know.. Father Hewko missed his flight that morning and had to purchase another on the spot to make it for a Mass at all. But remember that Fr. Hewko travels more than 100 days a year in Airports involving more than 250 connections a year. Do he or his superior have the right to pick the flights that he will take often in sickness or after little sleep? Or should that too be left to the judgement of whomever is chosen by whomever? If you fly somewhere do you have others arrange your flight travel, sleeping schedule etc.?

    - “At the end of the day, as a visiting priest, it's the spiritual things that you need to be in

    charge of Father, not the practical. You and any other priest who come are visiting priests.” Here is the crucial point. Are the Fathers of OLMC just visiting priests? If so than they will be under the direction of someone in charge. Who is that lay superior? In the Protestant churches the people elect superiors vote in and vote out pastors, vote by committee on new Church building, major church decisions—all of which is condemned by the hierarchical Catholic Church. St. Peter only said Masses in Cemeteries (Catechombs) and private houses that he did not own. Were his practical affairs run by the home owners, cemetery caretakers and groups for whom he, the pope, said Mass and to whom he preached? All the history of the early Church indicates otherwise. You say that the priest should not be in charge of the practical matters of the Church but only the spiritual ones. Fathers timing of Mass, his travel to and from it, is that beyond his competence. That was the opinion of Henry II of England against St. Thomas Becket, of the Masons who imprisoned Pius IX stealing from him the Papal States, and of many lay folk who have expelled SSPX and many other Traditional priests from their chapels since Vatican II. St. Jerome says that a priest, not under the Church, is like a unowned street dog, who wanders about head bowed in fear of all unable to bite or even bark. I have seen many such priests floating in Tradition, afraid, waiting for some strong faithful to take them in, own and control them. Remember, that in prison, the police only control the praciical matters of the prisoners, their spiritual side is completely up to themselves.
    -
    As regards the tickets, should I have purchased the tickets for seminarian to fly over to Australia, only to Sing for a funeral and then to encourage the faithful of Australia? Did you remember to think of the fiscal irresponsibility of those unnecessary practical choices made for spiritual motives? Note that Church matters are all matters related to the operation of Church, including Mass times, Travel of Priest, rectories Church building etc. On the day of the late Adelaide Mass, Fr Hewko traveled more than 10 hours to get there for Mass in the midst of a journey of more than 24,000 miles or more than 39,000 kilometers. That is the equivalent of circumnavigating the entire globe in a mere two week trip. When Father Hewko finished that trip he has had to continue traveling until now, since then. As I write it is midnight and Fr. Hewko is arriving from a small 2,000 kilometer weekend. I am sorry about travelers in late buses may be inconvenienced. Some of our souls wait months for the Mass and gladly receive an 11PM Mass without complaint from a traveling Padre, exhausted bringing Christ to souls.

    Now some days have Passed, it is now Holy Thursday, traveling again, I must just send this letter on to you with copy to Luke Ross. Please forgive any sense of my being disturbed in anyway and take this note in Charity. As you sent me this note, we have had to move out from another Mass venue due to Owner of house chapel dissaproval. We continue, having been barred from rental halls, having vestmnents and Mass implements taken away etc. Fr. Zendejas encouraged me keep up Mass in New York City area in nearby Connecticut for more than 2 years. He then set up a lay organization, committee, with bank accounts and new tax exempt corporation and then in one week took over most of Parish, leaving me with less than 10 faithful in the immediate are and about 50 altogether.. In late 2014. He kept about 60 faithful of the notheast all in one place, promising them weekly Masses and school. They are now around the same size and with only one place and we are back up to around 80 in the northeast area,

    God Bless
    In Christ,
    Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer

    __________________________________________

    Email 3: Mary Collins requested me, Luke Ross, to reply on her behalf


    27th April 2018

    Dear Father Pfeiffer,

    Due to various interpretations of recent events occurring in OLSC prayer community, I need to address for the record, your reply to Mary Collins, Adelaide co-ordinator who requested me to help resolve matters raised. Now there are more important issues at hand. Mary’s letter and your response are significant in getting a true understanding of the situation in Melbourne Australia. It is worth noting that another community/mission, Streaky Bay, South Australia stands with OLSC .

    To simplify reading, your comments are in red. My own are in black.

    Thank you for your note of concern of a few weeks ago. You may not be aware of it but you touched on matters more important than you may realize. In fact it is a matter noted by Pope Leo XIII in his dream of the late 19th century when he saw that Satan would have an much greater power to destroy souls in the 20th century for around 100 years. We must be at the end of that period now. Leo XIII introduced a simple exercism prayer that could be used by any priest or faithful against the devil and he introduced the prayers af- ter Low Mass including the invocation at the end of the St. Michael prayer “. . .and for the freedom and exsaltation of Holy Mother Church.” The word “freedom” refers to the Church being freed from Lay control.

    Father Pfeiffer, we had hoped that you would have addressed the main concerns regarding the chaos that resulted when you arranged the flight schedules for Fr. Hewko's visit. Whilst it escapes me what exorcism has to do with our concerns, it is disturbing that you even think this way. The St. Michael's prayer to which you refer seeks the freedom of Mother Church to deal with the Church's enemies; freedom to practice our faith; freedom from the attacks of heretics and infidels; freedom from false priests. I suggest that the latter is Pope XIII's particular concern where Scripture tells us that the great red dragon’s ‘tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth’. (Rev.12 : 4) The church has taught that this passage refers to a third of priests being swept away.

    It concerns us deeply that you misrepresent this prayer and lay it to our charge simply because we wanted to sort out the flight chaos and wastage by you of donated funds.

    Previous schedules operated smoothly with your approval up until the last time.

    Why did you change it? A clear, direct answer would be appreciated. With Father Hewko’s visit you told me you lost a lot of money with the airfares. In the past where you have minor involvement into the flight schedules and organisation the results are mayhem and costly wastage.

    You speak about lack of funds yet insisted on the priests paying their own way. Doesn't make sense. You worried about losing a lot of airfare money. We worried that some people could not attend in Adelaide due to last-minute bookings/ changes by you in the itinerary.

    The Church has become more and more shackled in the last 500 years first by kings and governments and now by anyone. St. Thomas Becket was martyred because he would not accept lay interference into his diocese. One of his priests raped and murdered a girl. The Duke representing the king put him to death without Ecclesiastical trial. St. Thomas Becket excommunicated him for not waiting for the Church trial and Judgement. The Priest would have been executed anyway but by the Church not the State.

    The Catholic Church has always insisted on its autonomy from Lay control. The problem of Lay investiture and Caesaropapism was a battle of centuries. Pope Gregory II wrote “For as the priest has not power to enter the palace, and to distribute royal honors, so the prince has not power to enter the Church to make decrees amongst the clergy, to offer sacrifice, or to touch the symbols of the sacred mysteries, nor to participate thereof, without the priest. Let each of us remain in the calling in which we have been called by God [1 Cor 7:20].


    It is quite extraordinary that you imply a non-existent motive to us.

    Of course 'the Catholic Church has always insisted on its autonomy from Lay control'. And quite right too! Does it say that lay people cannot pay for air fares for visiting priests? Frs. Chazal/Picot did not tell us we were guilty of breaking the law of the Church when we funded their airfares. We knew they had become doctrinally compromised, but thank God they didn’t go THAT far! We asked if you preferred to pay from your end and we send you the funds. Was that a form of 'Caesaropapism'? We simply feel it is an obligation on OUR part to offer payment as it is the least we can do. It’s all part of being in the true resistance to support the clergy. We know funds are required and scarce.

    Being simple laymen we had to look up the meaning of' Caesaropapism which is:

    a political theory in which the head of state, notably the emperor ("Caesar", by
    ex- tension a "superior" king), is also the supreme head of the church (papa, pope
    or analogous religious leader).

    You must have a lot on your mind since the above comment has no relationship to the subject in hand. These implications are very confusing. You may not be aware of the role of the co-ordinator in this country

    The Co-ordinator:

    i) coordinates travel arrangements
    ii) State co-ordinator books the hall
    iii) organises accommodation for the visiting priest
    iv) liaisons between the priest and the state community coordinators
    he knows not only what are any special needs of the visiting priest but has access to local knowledge
    v) as circumstances can change within a community he checks with each community coordinator before each visit. Something the visiting priest can’t do and isn’t expected to know.
    vi) Local information is essential for booking domestic plane flights and mass times because needs vary from State to State.
    A few examples:
    • People willingly catch two trains to reach a particular mass centre but catching trains to get home late at night presented a problem.
    • When the priest has to take Communion to the sick it requires proper timing.
    • An 80-year old gentleman willingly drives three hours each way to pick up the priest, so choosing the right time is important.
    • Interest from local SSPX laity has been shown to one community necessitating that they advertise in the local newspaper and rent a hall.
    Regarding payment
    Each community pays its share towards international & local airfares. It is common knowledge that if any community can’t pay their way others in OLSC will step in and help out. One community has had some financial support every time the priest visits. The system works well. Tickets can be purchased weeks ahead - as early as when the priest first tells us his arrival and departure dates. Tickets are purchased at cost-effective prices when purchased early. Australians have a track record of being very generous with their money and their funds can be paid to the Australian Coordinator as soon as required.

    Please see Mission Statement. It will clarify our 'reason-for- being'. The current situation in the Church has forced us into choosing which priests to trust with passing on what was received from the first Apostles a la Archbishop Lefebvre. We have already had the experience of being required to become a'parish' under OLMC Kentucky (SSPX-MC)* pastored by Fr. Chazal (SSPX-MC)* who had separated from Kentucky under your pastorship (SSPX-MC).*

    We had to face the fact that we had no visiting priest from that moment on. Maybe we never would.
    Gradually other states did likewise and we linked up with the result that we became a loose federation of prayer groups that, after several months, welcomed Melbourne's efforts to contact you Father. Each State was happy to allow Melbourne coordinator arrange schedules for flights.

    Up until now that has worked harmoniously albeit informally. Then Adelaide co- ordinator thought it her responsibility to inform you of the chaos that resulted from your having arbitrarily undertaken to book flights yourself - hence her feed- back to you.

    Our community in Melbourne gather to pray regularly and we invite visiting priests who teach sound doctrine to come and provide us with the Sacraments when, and if they can squeeze us into their busy schedules. We pay for all costs such as:
    • priests’ airfares,
    • venue,
    • hire accommodation,
    • and have a generous donation for the priest to take home.

    1. Orgnanization of the trip was mess
    Commication was lacking The Coordinator was not properly informed but Brisbane was informed. The Trip was arranged only 2 weeks in advance, had to be adjusted due to funeral as well. This late scheduling happens most often here in USA due to lack of funds to buy tickets untl shortly before and complexity of scheduling 40 to 50 locations for Masses at least once every six or seven weeks. Having no repeatable schedule yet nescessitates myself still arranging the circuits with the interest of all the sheep in mind.

    The above understanding of the Australian set-up confirms the necessity of leaving the co- ordination between states to one resident Australian co-ordinator for the reasons listed below:
    Australia has only 6 locations – not 40 or 50.


    • We have funds available ahead of time. We have more funds available be- cause the priests visit us less often so we can save more between visits.


    • Australian old age pensions are high compared to the US. We have eighty- year-old pensioners who save $50 per week to put on the plate. There are the same high pensions and subsidies for families with many children, un- married or separated mothers and so on.


    • In Australia you only have to give the coordinator the dates of your in- ternational flights. We can book these flights or express the funds to your bank account so you can pay for them immediately and upfront. All too easy and stress free

    OLMC also has the policy of charging no one and asking nothing from the souls we freely visit to help other laity keep the Faith and get to heaven. These policies have been an inconvenience for some and a great relief for many others. Our Lady has assisted us to date and it is my hope that she will continue to do so.

    Let us get real, if you remember, financial top-ups and large donations were re- quested by you for yourself and Fr. Hewko for various flight tickets and to pay for two funerals in the US and so on.
    Was the condemnation of us as Caesaropapists lifted for that time?

    Also, OLSC received feedback from someone that they received a request from you for a donation. Then recently Pablo rang me and asked for donations for Fr. Robert’s court case as well as to finish a building project at the seminary. He said he had your permission to ask. Our Lady has assisted you when you asked OLSC for donations. It is our privilege to provide funds to you as always.

    We mention these things as it takes time to raise funds for so many projects such as when Australia raised $120,000 AUD for the purchase of your brother’s house in the US. In Australia, other money is raised and given to other true resistance priests throughout the world.

    We have had trouble collecting funds from Brisbane for airfares due to their “lack of funds” Brisbane rented hotel rooms for the visit when they could have rented a cheap hall. Who is this “we”? The closest parishioner with a house for Father to stay in is only two and half hours drive from the Mass Venue. Should Father drive the 5 hours at night and in early morning to save funds for airfare

    that is not charged to them anyway? *

    Should Father sleep outdoors to save funds instead of the drive? How much money do they have in Brisbane anyway? (If a local can coordinate the details in Adelaide, Melbouurne etc. then why not Brisbane?) Who should the donor(s) that paid for the motel and conference rooms report to for approval of their anonymous donation? You see the problem of one Mass group interfering with another. This is one reason it is wise to let each Mass Group coordinate with the Priest or his representative on these matters. Luke is My representative for the overall cross coordination of schedules and the like for Aus- tralia. He is doing a fine job. The individual coordinators works with Father for their re- spective places as well.


    Feedback from people in Brisbane have informed me that there are halls to be hired that cost around $30 per day. A motel room for the priest is essential of course. Compared to hiring a conference room, bedrooms in motels/hotels for elderly ladies who live in nearby suburbs is beyond my ability to understand. If Brisbane was genuinely broke there would be no concern whatsoever. Melbourne has been financially supporting Brisbane when, they could have easily supported themselves.

    *This can only mean that you paid for this with donated funds from other Masses.

    Adelaide could have been caught which would have avoided making Mass too late for Adelaide and the Port Lincoln flight must have unbeknownst to Father been too expensive due to late purchasing of ticket. I purchased the ticket as early as I could and remember looking at the price before purchasing the ticket, the cost of which is charged to no one. I am sorry if it is excessive charge. If you need reimbursement for any expenses please let me know.. Father Hewko missed his flight that morning and had to purchase another on the spot to make it for a Mass at all. But remember that Fr. Hewko travels more than 100 days a year in Airports involving more than 250 connections a year. Do he or his superior have the right to pick the flights that he will take often in sickness or after little sleep? Or should that too be left to the judgement of whomever is chosen by whomever? If you fly somewhere do you have others arrange your flight travel, sleeping schedule etc.?

    More evidence Father of the chaos caused when you took the co-ordinator's job upon yourself, due to not understanding the best deals and not having the required knowledge. The local co-ordinators knew of another flight which was available at the time to an alternative airport which was a far more cost effective option. To say this is not taking into consideration the priest’s requirements is ludicrous.

    At the end of the day, as a visiting priest, it's the spiritual things that you need to be in charge of Father, not the practical. You and any other priest who come are visit- ing priests.” Here is the crucial point. Are the Fathers of OLMC just visiting priests?

    Yes Father you are visiting priests. We are not an extension of OLMC 'parish' as you can see from our Mission Statement. In the past we have had Fathers Chazal, Picot, MacDonald, Ortiz, Vallen and Suneel visit our shores. They were all visiting priests because that is what they were doing - visiting. They were not permanent nor even acting as parish priests that is, until the Fathers Chazal/Picot revealed their expectations of us as related earlier in this reply.

    To suggest below that a visiting priest has to be under a lay superior is bizarre to say the least.

    If so than they will be under the direction of someone in charge. Who is that lay superior? In the Protestant churches the people elect superiors vote in and vote out pastors, vote by committee on new Church building, major church decisions—all of which is con- demned by the hierarchical Catholic Church. St. Peter only said Masses in Cemeteries (Catechombs) and private houses that he did not own. Were his practical affairs run by the home owners, cemetery caretakers and groups for whom he, the pope, said Mass and to whom he preached? All the history of the early Church indicates otherwise. You say that the priest should not be in charge of the practical matters of the Church but only the spiritual ones.

    Fathers timing of Mass, his travel to and from it, is that beyond his competence. That was the opinion of Henry II of England against St. Thomas Becket, of the Masons who impris- oned Pius IX stealing from him the Papal States, and of many lay folk who have expelled SSPX and many other Traditional priests from their chapels since Vatican II. St. Jerome says that a priest, not under the Church, is like a unowned street dog, who wanders about head bowed in fear of all unable to bite or even bark. I have seen many such priests float- ing in Tradition, afraid, waiting for some strong faithful to take them in, own and control them. Remember, that in prison, the police only control the praciical matters of the prison- ers, their spiritual side is completely up to themselves.

    As regards the tickets, should I have purchased the tickets for seminarian to fly over to Australia, only to Sing for a funeral and then to encourage the faithful of Australia? Did you remember to think of the fiscal irresponsibility of those unnecessary practical choices made for spiritual motives? Note that Church matters are all matters related to the opera- tion of Church, including Mass times, Travel of Priest, rectories Church building etc. On the day of the late Adelaide Mass, Fr Hewko traveled more than 10 hours to get there for Mass in the midst of a journey of more than 24,000 miles or more than 39,000 kilometers. That is the equivalent of circumnavigating the entire globe in a mere two week trip. When Father Hewko finished that trip he has had to continue traveling until now, since then. As I

    write it is midnight and Fr. Hewko is arriving from a small 2,000 kilometer weekend. I am sorry about travelers in late buses may be inconvenienced. Some of our
    souls wait months for the Mass and gladly receive an 11PM Mass without complaint from a traveling Padre, exhausted bringing Christ to souls.

    Now some days have Passed, it is now Holy Thursday, traveling again, I must just send this letter on to you with copy to Luke Ross. Please forgive any sense of my being dis- turbed in anyway and take this note in Charity. As you sent me this note, we have had to move out from another Mass venue due to Owner of house chapel dissaproval. We con- tinue, having been barred from rental halls, having vestmnents and Mass imple ments taken away etc. Fr. Zendejas encouraged me keep up Mass in New York City area in nearby Connecticut for more than 2 years. He then set up a lay organization, committee, with bank accounts and new tax exempt corporation and then in one week took over most of Parish, leaving me with less than 10 faithful in the immediate are and about 50 altogether.. In late 2014. He kept about 60 faithful of the notheast all in one place, promising them weekly Masses and school. They are now around the same size and with only one place and we are back up to around 80 in the northeast area.


    Nothing in your reply answers the genuinely worried letter sent you about flight schedules and money wastage. Fr. Hewko has congratulated us on the way Australia co-ordinates priests' visits.

    The implications you apply Father to our endeavours is distorted out of all proportion.

    Re-evaluating our role:
    Taking stock of where we stood at the moment when you decided to stop your visits to Melbourne it became evident that we had to take a step back and base our new knowledge/experience in the resistance movement.

    Out of the blue we were told that we would be members of OLMC. Until this visit no-one has ever heard you mention that important fact. Surely, it is something about which we needed to be informed.

    Father, it would have been good if we could have discussed the above things with you calmly without deviating from the matters in hand. However, you laid down the very same conditions as did Frs. Chazal and Picot! So unless we join OLMC you won’t provide us with the Sacraments. Thus we were presented with joining YOUR branch of OLMC/SSPX-MC. From what you said it closes the door to any future true resistance priest in Australia unless he joins OLMC. In other words he is under your control. If a new true resistance priest visits us and chooses to remain independent of OLMC it is not an option for you.

    Summary
    In the end, our decision is that OLSC community gathers to pray regularly as usual. We are prepared to keep praying our Rosaries together and offering Spiritual Communions, leaving it to our dear Mother in Heaven which priest or priests she may choose to visit us with the Sacraments (or not visit us for that matter). After all, you have preached loud and clear that we, the true resistance movement, could become priestless in many parts of the world.

    The upshot of all this is that a few of the laity pray together regularly for the following intentions:
    • to keep the Faith unsullied and uncompromised
    • to reject and fight the heresies now emanating from Rome
    • to give us the strength to fight courageously for the present Vicar of Christ to pray for the Pope to return to the true faith
    To make things more workable OLSC intends to establish a fund allowing people to donate to true resistance causes either locally or internationally.

    In conclusion, it is necessary to point out that there is a discrepancy to imply in no uncertain terms that we are ordering you around (to put it in our own words) when we believe it our willing obligation to finance airfares and accommodation smoothing the way for priests who go to so much trouble to visit us. Then acting in a contradictory way, you request us to repeat the action for which we have been condemned!

    It is repugnant to us that we are forced into having to defend ourselves from a priest whom, when carrying out our duties, we are chastised!

    The times we live in dictate how we have to respond in a given situation. Obstacles arise that seem insurmountable at the time but new paths open up eventually. At present, in Australia there are only 'conciliar' parishes and the fake resistance. So we were grateful when you and Fr. Hewko visited us. It troubled us when you revealed that you had the same expectations as Frs. Chazal/Picot.

    Since you have chosen to leave us one door has closed, but by the grace of God another will open. Wishing you all the best Father.

    Yours in JMJ,
    Luke Ross, Coordinator Email: luke@houseofross.net




    * SSPX-MC: Priests who left SSPX, some of whom were expelled because of their opposition to 2012 Declaration of Bishop Fellay. Thus, began what is known as the 'resistance movement.'
     
  8. daro

    daro New Member

    Now that all the stones have been cast, I would like to thank you all for sharing the eye-opening information in this forum. The administrator is right, many people would rather believe the words of a priest, right or wrong, he is always right and he does not have to listen to the laity as Fr, P himself said. The shepherd leads the sheep, the sheep or the lay people are simply useful idiots who must obey the priest, as the priest must obey his bishop and the bishop his Pope.

    Unfortunately, this is precisely one of the root causes for the present crisis in the Catholic Church, namely priests do not listen to the laity, bishops do not listen to priests, and the Vatican does not listen to any of them. Why do they have such arrogance and throw their weight around? No wonder the Church is crumbling everywhere and with so many court cases to answer to and the people are leaving the Church in droves.

    … learn from me for I am meek and humble of heart … (Matthew 11: 29)

    Thank you to the coordinator of OLSC for organising regular group prayers and fellowship especially in Victoria, for producing the regular Newsletter of OLSC and for inviting the so-called resistance priests to Australia. You have also been instrumental in raising desperately needed funds for the priests and their seminary, and now being labelled as “Protestants” for questioning OLMC's global parish and total submission to them.

    No doubt we have been very generous “Protestants” in raising AUD120,000 to buy the property for the traditional Catholic seminary and this within 4 monthsof Fr. P coming to Australia. Since then the group has also provided financial assistance on various occasions for various causes as requested.

    Thank you to father P and the resistance priests who answered to the group’s invitation to come to Australia as visiting priests. Rest assured that this group never intended to interfere or influence you in your priestly duties as priest to the group.

    He who is greatest among you shall be your servant, whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted (Matthew 23: 11-12).

    Just hope when the dust has settled, there won’t be another round of stoning.

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  9. Admin

    Admin Moderator Staff Member

    You have painted a picture of the overall situation in the Church of of which we are a mere michrochosm. Thank you.

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  10. Admin

    Admin Moderator Staff Member

    Father Cummins was as free as a bird. He flew everywhere there was want of the true Mass. The whole world was his parish so that he could call everyone his 'parishioners' without setting up a parish of his own that excluded other visiting priests.
    The closest he ever came to setting up a parish was at Hampton which he started then handed over to the SSPX's
    Fr. Hogan. He never ever claimed exclusive ownership of any property whatsoever depending on the charity of his 'parishioners' wherever they happened to live. Unlike Frs. Chazal/Picot when it was made plain that they would own the church and property.

    When Father Pfeiffer made it plain that OLSC was his parish, and when he supported Fr. Chazal's version of a parish, OLSC could not go down the same path as when we were members of the resistance movement in its early stages.

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018