Pope gives Jurisdiction to the SSPX marriages

Discussion in 'Resistance Movement' started by Machabees, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    Yup, that's number 6 out of 7 sacraments "given" to the sspx from the conciliarists (Confessions, Extreme unction, Ordinations, Eucharist [celebration of the "extraordinary mass"], Baptism [a given], now marriage). The only one left is confirmation; that would seem to come when the bishops get their "Personal Prelature" for which they are a "stamp" away.

    While Bishop Fellay was playing theatrics to his followers saying "nothing is going on" at the same time maneuvering ABL's SSPX into the conciliarist machine, the clever ways they choose to go about their deceit was in piece-meal. Just hide in plain sight the "Ordinary jurisdiction" feeding the public in tidbits by giving the first sacrament, then another, and another...; so in effect, a De Facto is De Jure” in Catholic law, whereby the Pope just regularized the neo-sspx by unilateral decree.

    [The highest Law of the Church is the salvation of souls, so to give a De Facto (In Fact) is always one for the salvation of souls thus being the same as a De Jure (In law and Justice).]

    Bishop Fellay of course responds with a tactful "surprise", yet declares after in other interviews, he acknowledges the fact pursuing their agenda:

    DICI: On September 1st, Pope Francis, on his own initiative, decided to allow all the faithful to make confessions to priests of the Society of St. Pius X during the Holy Year. How do you interpret this gesture? What does it mean for the Society?

    Bishop Fellay: "How do we understand this gesture?...As a result of the Pope’s act, during the Holy Year, we will have ordinary jurisdiction...this has the effect of giving us the official insignia..., whereas such a status was denied us for decades. In itself, it adds nothing new for the Society, its members, or its faithful. Yet this ordinary jurisdiction will perhaps reassure people who are uneasy or others who until now did not dare to approach us." (Letter to Friends and Benefactors #85, Nov. 30, 2015.)​

    Note, by "giving" the sacrament of marriage to the sspx is a huge step making obvious the ordinary jurisdiction explicit to the sspx that runs parallel with the act of judging in the name of the [conciliar] church. This was always a huge contention with the Ecclesia Dei crowds because the sspx was "out" of the "official" church.

    Of course the neo-sspx is now IN the official conciliar church; any verbalization to the contrary is only a cover and charade.

    Here is the documents acknowledging the #6 sacrament of marriage.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2017/04/step-by-step-vatican-issues-marriage.html


    Step by step: Vatican issues Marriage Pastoral Guidelines for SSPX

    From Vatican Radio:

    In a letter approved by Pope Francis, Cardinal Gerhard Müller says, “The Holy Father . . . has decided to authorize Local Ordinaries the possibility to grant faculties for the celebration of marriages of faithful who follow the pastoral activity of the Society.” The Pope's decision adopts a proposal by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, both of which are headed by Cardinal Müller.

    The new provisions are part of a number of ongoing meetings and initiatives aimed at bringing the Society into full communion; Cardinal Müller’s letter mentions specifically the recent decision of Pope Francis to grant all priests of the Society the faculty to validly administer the Sacrament of Penance to the faithful in order “to ensure the validity and liceity of the Sacrament and allay any concerns on the part of the faithful.”

    The grant of faculties for the celebration of marriage is subject to several provisions: “Insofar as possible, the Local Ordinary [that is, normally the local Diocesan Bishop] is to grant the delegation to assist at the marriage to a priest of the Diocese (or in any event, to a fully regular priest), such that the priest may receive the consent of the parties during the marriage rite, followed, in keeping with the liturgy of the Vetus ordo, by the celebration of Mass, which may be celebrated by a priest of the Society.” That is, a priest in good standing is to preside at the celebration of the marriage itself, which in the extraordinary form takes place before the nuptial Mass. The Mass itself may then be celebrated by a priest of the SSPX.

    The letter also foresees that circumstances may exist where those provisions are not possible, or where no Diocesan priest is able to receive the consent of the parties. In such cases, the Pope allows the Ordinary to grant faculties to the priest who will celebrate the nuptial Mass.

    Cardinal Müller closes his letter expressing his conviction that “in this way any uneasiness of conscience on the part of the faithful who adhere to the Society of St. Pius X as well as any uncertainty regarding the validity of the sacrament of marriage may be alleviated, and at the same time that the process towards full institutional regularization may be facilitated”; and that, to that end, the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei “relies” on the cooperation of the prelates of the Episcopal Conferences concerned in this matter.

    Below, please find the full text of Cardinal Gerhard Müller’s letter, dated March 27, 2017:

    Your Eminence,

    Your Excellency,

    As you are aware, for some time various meetings and other initiatives have been ongoing in order to bring the Society of St. Pius X into full communion. Recently, the Holy Father decided, for example, to grant all priests of said Society the faculty to validly administer the Sacrament of Penance to the faithful (Letter Misericordia et misera, n.12), such as to ensure the validity and liceity of the Sacrament and allay any concerns on the part of the faithful.

    Following the same pastoral outlook which seeks to reassure the conscience of the faithful, despite the objective persistence of the canonical irregularity in which for the time being the Society of St. Pius X finds itself, the Holy Father, following a proposal by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, has decided to authorize Local Ordinaries the possibility to grant faculties for the celebration of marriages of faithful who follow the pastoral activity of the Society, according to the following provisions.

    Insofar as possible, the Local Ordinary is to grant the delegation to assist at the marriage to a priest of the Diocese (or in any event, to a fully regular priest), such that the priest may receive the consent of the parties during the marriage rite, followed, in keeping with the liturgy of the Vetus ordo, by the celebration of Mass, which may be celebrated by a priest of the Society.

    Where the above is not possible, or if there are no priests in the Diocese able to receive the consent of the parties, the Ordinary may grant the necessary faculties to the priest of the Society who is also to celebrate the Holy Mass, reminding him of the duty to forward the relevant documents to the Diocesan Curia as soon as possible.

    Certain that in this way any uneasiness of conscience on the part of the faithful who adhere to the Society of St. Pius X as well as any uncertainty regarding the validity of the sacrament of marriage may be alleviated, and at the same time that the process towards full institutional regularization may be facilitated, this Dicastery relies on Your cooperation.

    The Sovereign Pontiff Francis, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal President of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei on 24 March 2017, confirmed his approval of the present letter and ordered its publication.

    Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 27 March 2017.


    Gerhard Card. L. Müller
    President


    + Guido Pozzo
    Secretary
    Titular Archbishop of Bagnoregio

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  2. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    Let's draw some other take-aways from this.

    #1. One needs to be first reconciled to the "official" church, like the other nine "traditional" communities, then the allowances of jurisdiction for the mission of the church comes after. I forgot what it is called, but like a new ordinate to the priesthood, they do receive the power to consecrate in the mass but separately need the mission of the church to act and function within their jurisdiction. But Bishop Fellay, as the superior general, and the Vatican chose to do it backwards to hide it before the population being highly political and at odds with many camps. This gives the conciliarists what they want and Bishop Fellay to get what he wants: to gain an emotional "appreciation" and recognition from the conciliarists.

    "I must admit to no longer knowing what to think. I had believed that you were disposed to leave till a later date the resolution of outstanding disagreements over certain points of the Council and liturgical reform, rather like when the Council of Florence, in order to achieve union, overlooked the question of the Greeks allowing divorce following adultery, and I committed myself in this perspective despite the fairly strong opposition in the ranks of the Society and at the price of substantial disruption. And I fully intend to continue to do my best to pursue this path to reach the necessary clarifications.

    "...Moreover, given the enormous opposition brewing up in certain circles of the Church determined to render impossible the activity of the new prelature, given the pressure even of certain countries, I wonder how in such circumstances the project could come to fruition.

    "I believe you alone can still change the course of events to come. Of course it is not for me to apply any kind of pressure, but simply set out the facts and find out if I mistook your intentions concerning our situation. If you judge it opportune, at this rather delicate moment, I dare ask of your goodness an audience (the most discreet possible) in order to hear from your own lips your appreciation of us."
    (Bishop Fellay, Letter to pope Benedict XVI, June 17, 2012)​

    What a sellout! Cheap, like Judas only wanting money.


    #2.
    These six sacraments given in de Jure acts of the sspx/conciliar rome alliance is also explicit to giving permission and the mission for the neo-sspx to act in, and in the name of, the conciliar church.


    #3. The new-sspx can no longer claim they can officiate marriages within their sspx chapels in the name of "State of Emergency". For the new-sspx, the State of Emergency is over!


    #4. This was formulated, processed, and signed by the modernist Cardinal Gerhard Müller, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who denies the resurrection of our Lord.

    Is this new document on the sacrament of marriage a coincidence when Bishop Fellay met with Cardinal Müller accompanied by Father Alain-Marc Nély, the 2nd Assistant General of the Society, this past Oct. 13, 2016? Were they working out this document? We can't be naive!

    It is now interesting that Bishop Fellay and their medias are more friendly with Cardinal Müller, in a conservative way trying to "save" the conciliar marriages, no longer calling him out in word as a modernist and one who denies our Lord's resurrection; but in a new relationship, Bishop Fellay said in Poland within his sermon on March 3, 2017, "Cardinal Muller asked him for the SSPX to join his fight against the modernists". Ironic!


    #5. With the included wording from the pope, we see that he as the head authority and legislator also placed their [modernist] ploys in the document(s) to get THEIR conciliar novus ordo people inside the now conciliar-sspx to effect the change within them. “[in] this way any uneasiness of conscience on the part of the [conciliar] faithful who adhere to the Society of St. Pius X as well as any uncertainty regarding the validity of the sacrament of marriage may be alleviated, and at the same time that the process towards full institutional regularization may be facilitated, this Dicastery relies on Your cooperation." A sweet deceit!


    #6. In addition to the novus ordo advancing their new religion into the conciliar-sspx territory, the pope wrote:

    "Insofar as possible, the Local Ordinary is to grant the delegation to assist at the marriage to a [Ed. novus ordo] priest of the Diocese (or in any event, to a fully regular priest), such that the [Ed. novus ordo] priest may receive the consent of the parties during the marriage rite, followed, in keeping with the liturgy of the Vetus ordo, by the celebration of Mass, which may be celebrated by a priest of the Society.

    "Where the above is not possible, or if there are no priests in the Diocese able to receive the consent of the parties, the Ordinary may grant the necessary faculties to the priest of the Society who is also to celebrate the Holy Mass, reminding him of the duty to forward the relevant documents to the Diocesan Curia as soon as possible."

    Meaning - this is a document just officially accepted by Bishop Fellay, and must precede forthwith in every marriage within the sspx chapels!

    To wit:

    A). Every marriage of the sspx must now go through the conciliar Bishop for his allowance and permission within his Diocese and choice of delegation to let one of his novus ordo priests be present mixing within the SSPX sanctuaries to every marriage taking place in the sspx chapels, or allow without a novus ordo priest, the sspx priest to witness the marriage himself. Including...

    B). Every marriage and its documents in the sspx must be dully recorded and "forwarded to the Diocesan Curia".

    C). This is an explicit consent by both sspx/rome that ALL judgments, records, copies of records, and future annulment investigations must go through the conciliar Diocese.​

    Regarding any future sspx "annulments", remember the 2012 Official SSPX General Chapter stating that the SSPX superiors have "determined and approved the necessary conditions for an eventual canonical normalization", voted within their "6-conditions", a consent they would not and could not do annulments anymore but only wanted to be apart of the judgement as an option to have their own “ecclesiastical tribunals in the first instance.”

    Sine qua non conditions: 1 Freedom to keep, to transmit and to teach the sane doctrine of the unchanging magisterium of the Church and of the unchangeable truth of Divine Tradition ; freedom to defend, to correct and to reprove, even in public, those responsible for the errors or novelties of modernism, of liberalism, of The Second Vatican Council and their consequences ; 2 Exclusive use of the liturgy of 1962. The retention of the sacramental practice that we have at the moment (including holy orders, confirmation and marriage) ; 3 The guarantee of at least one bishop.

    Desirable conditions: 1 Our own ecclesiastical tribunals, in the first instance ; 2 Exemption of houses of The Society of St Pius X in respect of diocesan bishops ; 3 A Pontifical Commission in Rome for Tradition, dependent on the Pope, with a majority of members, and the presidency, from Tradition”.
    (Father Christian Thouvenot, Circular Letter to Superiors of 18 July 2012)​

    A "desirable condition" is only an option thus only an opinion; they didn't get it; though not explicitly publicized. These annulment judgements are hand in hand receiving from the pope this newly accepted "permission" to grant marriages from the conciliar Dioceses; so Bishop Fellay cannot fiend surprised.

    This is serious information Menzingen is hiding...all to obfuscate their sspx followers.


    #7.
    Why? Bishop Fellay and all the neo-sspx superiors SOLD us in these 5-years that they "need an Identity" to be “canonically reconciled” or they will have a schismatic mentality and become sedevacantists:

    Remember some of these statements...
    • Bishop Fellay's letter with Frs. Pfluger and Nely to the three bishops insinuating that those other fellow bishops were of a “sedevacantist” and “schismatic” mentality if they do not follow them. www.therecusant.com/menz-letter-to-3-bishops
    • Bishop Fellay stated the same error in understanding the nature of the true Church: "The fact of going to Rome does not mean we agree with them. But it is the Church. And THIS IS THE TRUE CHURCH. In rejecting what is not good, one should not reject everything. this is the one, holy, catholic, apostolic church." (Flavigny, September 2, 2012)
    • Father Pfluger clearly stated this error in a interview: “As for us, we also suffer a DEFAULT, because of our canonical IRREGULARITY. It is not only the state of the post-conciliar Church which is imperfect, so is ours.” And further on: “The obligation to work actively to overcome the crisis cannot be disputed. And this work begins with us, wanting to overcome our canonical state ABNORMAL.”(Kirchliche Umschau, October 17, 2012) - http://www.dici.org/en/documents/interview-with-father-pfluger/
    #8. The conciliar-sspx are so advanced within the modernist structure, they cannot get out without [another] excommunication that would absolutely be real to their people and the world (though its conciliar who cares); but Bishop Fellay does and stated this himself:

    "There are still more joys and more tears, recent ones too. You know that a short time ago we met Pope Francis. Well, he explained to us that Benedict XVI, at the end of his pontificate, had set a deadline, and that if the Society did not accept the Roman proposal by that date, he had decided that the Society would be excommunicated." (Bishop Fellay, DICI, April 16, 2016)​

    Our Lord said to us "Watch and pray". We know this in life and every night to do an honest examination of conscience. Yet, here we have the conciliar-sspx not watching by allowing the wolf in their chapels effecting the environment of novus ordo vile around their own followers at the same time NOT telling their followers the truth and any informed discernment what is happening to them.

    This is so disgusting...souls are perishing with these fallen Aarons making their golden calves!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  3. Deus Vult

    Deus Vult Well-Known Member

    It's no wonder Our Lady cried so many times.

    "There are evil men in the Church who have evil intentions, who are not good of heart, who know exactly what they're doing.


    It's no use in saying, oh they just have good intentions. There are real wicked men who serve Satan. There are real masons. There are real Satanists who are inside of the Church.

    If they come in they will smile and they will look so holy, because that is their game. And they will use their power in order to drag souls away from the divine truth, in order to drag souls away from God. They are everywhere in the Church. They live in Rome. They live in Menzingen. They live in our priories. They live in the parishes throughout the world."

    http://cor-mariae.com/index.php?threads/the-fight-of-the-pure-truth-against-the-perfect-lie.5266/
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
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  4. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    [As a FYI, I just made many additions, emphasizes, and source references to the above 2-posts.]
     
  5. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    Bishop Fellay just consented and accepted, in the name of the entire sspx, this [conciliar] document:

    "The Society of Saint Pius X conveys its deep gratitude to the Holy Father for his pastoral solicitude."
    (Dici, April, 4, 2017)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  6. Rose

    Rose Well-Known Member

    Machabees, I can only say thank you for all the work you put into these posts, clearing the muddy waters stirred up by the obtuse and ambiguous language of both the Novus Ordo and the leadership of the n-SSPX.

    But alas, the clearer view of these maneuvers by the Conciliar Church and Bishop Fellay only leave one sickened at heart to see such artifices.

    Well, we are not of this religion. We do not accept this new religion. We are of the religion of all time; we are of the Catholic religion. We are not of this 'universal religion' as they call it today-this is not the Catholic religion any more. We are not of this Liberal, Modernist religion which has its own worship, its own priests, its own faith, its own catechisms, its own Bible, the 'ecumenical Bible' - these things we do not accept.” (ABL, Sermon, July 29, 1976)

    “Thus those who were with us and were working with us for the rights of Our Lord, for the salvation of souls, are now saying, "So long as they grant us the old Mass, we can shake hands with Rome, no problem." But we are seeing how it works out. They are in an impossible situation. Impossible. One cannot both shake hands with modernists and keep following Tradition. Not possible. Not possible.” (ABL, Two Years After the Consecrations, September 6, 1990)


    Its like watching the SSPX being swallowed into the of quicksand of the Conciliar Church and it has joyfully run to that pit.
     
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  7. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

    And the False Resistance headed(?) by B. Williamson is leading us into the same pit via a different route.

    ..
     
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  8. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    What I find interesting in this, beyond the cookies and cream, is that according to Bishop Fellay, the new-sspx is just a stamp away from being canonically recognized; meaning, very soon they will receive their desired "Personal Prelature" in which Bishop Fellay described the Prelature will be like a "Super Dioceses...having an absolute right to itself; including marriages, setting up schools and seminaries" and such not needing this document or "permission" from Diocesan bishops. So why the move on the part of conciliar rome at a time just before the stamp?

    It seems to gain from Bishop Fellay and his followers the fact in their eyes there is no longer a "state of emergency" to receive the mass and sacraments; but the state of emergency was based on protecting the faith. As with, it seems to lead Bishop Fellay, like a carrot before a horse, around and around to capitulate and give "obedience" to the Roman Curias; as for the new-sspx priests and people to adjust to the new novus ordo environment.

    It is a good reminded to place his quote here:

    "[ . . . ] Rome is offering us a new structure. At its head will be a bishop, chosen by the Pope from a list of three Society members, named by the Society. He will have authority over priests, over any religious wanting to join the new structure and over Catholics belonging to the new structure. These will have an absolute right to receive from Society priests all the sacraments, including marriage. This bishop will be able to set up schools and seminaries, to ordain ( priests ), to establish new religious Congregations. The structure will be like a super-diocese, independent of all local bishops. In other words, for you faithful, there will be no change from what you are already enjoying with the Society. The only difference will be that you will be officially recognized as Catholics.

    "You can easily imagine that there will be clashes with the local bishops. So we must be prudent, but as things stand you cannot imagine anything better than this offer, which is such that you cannot think it is a trap. It is not a trap , and if anyone makes us such an offer it can only be because he wishes us well . He wants Tradition to prosper and to flourish within the Church. It is impossible that such an offer could come from our enemies. They have many other ways to crush us, but not that way [ . . . ].
    http://cor-mariae.com/index.php?thr...tity-with-the-conciliarists-aug-24-2016.4409/
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  9. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    Here is an interesting take from a french blog "Résistance catholique francophone"
    http://resistance.vraiforum.com/t174-Le-pape-autorise-la-FSSPX-c-l-brer-des-mariages-licites-et.htm

    [Posted on: Yesterday at 14:41 (2017) Subject of the message: The Pope authorized the SSPX to celebrate legal and]

    This document is very interesting because it reinforces the analysis of the Catholic resistance with regard to the process of integration of fsspx in the conciliar church.

    0), it is in the logic of the motu proprio which puts in an inferiority the rite of always with the conciliar Mass: the priest of the fsspx is, in the case of marriage, placed at a discount from the parish priest who Will receive the consents. Tradition is at the service of modernism. Pure Ratzinger.

    1) it is in line with the "lifting" of the 2009 excommunications which put an end to a so-called public sin state of the fsspx to restore it to a state of legality: in this document, the Roman authorities stress the irregular state Of the fsspx. The priests of the fsspx, now celebrating marriages within the framework of the official church will owe it to the mercy of the conciliar authorities ...

    2) It is in line with the statement of Bishop Fellay in 2012 that has never been formally retracted with the Roman authorities and which allows Rome to integrate gently the faithful of the fsspx without the modernists Are overly concerned.

    3) It is within the logic of the recognition of confessions of the fsspx within the framework of the conciliar church (for the "Jubilee Year" and is now renewed due to the good conduct of the Superior General).

    4) It is in the logic of the recognition of the priestly ordinations of the young seminarians of the neofsspx. If Rome recognizes that these priests are part of the official church, it is quite logical that she concedes to them a little of her ministry (we should say that the fsspx will treat the ministry of modernist priests)

    5) It is logical especially in the fact that Rome will sooner or later give a prelature which will only be the legal finalization of a process begun for a long time.

    Logically, Menzingen can only rejoice in this, since his desire is also to arrive at the prelature. His official communique will be sufficiently watered down so as not to manifest a delirious joy and also to reassure the priests and the faithful who are still under his influence. The general house of the fsspx may be a reminder that the fsspx marriages were once valid due to the state of necessity as they did on September 1, 2015 about the recognition of confessions by the pope (" The Fraternity of St. Pius X expresses its gratitude to the Sovereign Pontiff for this paternal gesture, and in the ministry of the sacrament of penance it has always relied on the extraordinary jurisdiction conferred by the Normae generales of the Code of Canon Law . " ). They will surely emphasize the fact that this delegation of marriages was already made at the local level without specifying that it was a question for the faithful to have a place to marry and not a certificate of conciliar legality that is generally mocked by good faithful .
    On the other hand, the superiors of the fsspx will be very discreet to specify under which canonical regime the neofsspx marriages will unfold.

    What will the faithful who do not want this conciliar church do now?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  10. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    Here's another thought.

    This agreed to marriage document, now Official in the new-sspx, is a real line in the sand for all of the sspx priests and followers. That is, for the last 5 years the 600 priests, chapels, priories and their followers have only dealt with the remote abstract communications and documents from Menzingen brushing it off as a "misunderstanding" or other. This new conciliar marriage agreement now places all those priests and followers side by side in a proximate, practical and tangible involvement with the novus ordo priests, its religion, officiating the marital consent(s). It can be said that this new marriage agreement is essentially a novus ordo ceremony with an "extraordinary mass" by a sspx priest.

    So what kind of mental gymnastics will these priests come up with for excuses to follow Bishop Fellay down this dark road? What will all their followers do getting married and those in the congregation seeing a novus ordo priest officiating in their chapel?

    Will the new-sspx even tell them? They certainly haven't said anything for the last 5 years to the contrary but praises receiving the other five [conciliar] sacraments and needing recognition from the novus ordo establishment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  11. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

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  12. Anand

    Anand Well-Known Member

    What need does the SSPX have for Fatima when it has salivated it's way into the Conciliar Church?
     
  13. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    Here are more questions, or rather stark admissions.

    1. As the new-sspx no longer can say there is a State of Necessity, they must comply with the local Bishop. Being so, the new-sspx will have to implement any marriage concerns, or lack thereof, and add any other documents the sspx may not have or be acceptable.

    2. The novus ordo priests called for in the pope's document to officiate over the marriages in the sspx chapels, agreed to by Bishop Fellay, will he be in novus ordo rainbow vestments, clown paraphernalia, or under cover in traditional vestments?

    3. Will that novus ordo priest be validly ordained?

    4. If the new-sspx priest doesn't like the arrangement, will he be punished by the local bishop or Bishop Fellay? If he does the marriage anyway attesting to a state of necessity, will the marriage be valid by the local bishop? How will the documents be process in the new-sspx and to the local bishop?

    5. If the new-sspx people do not like it, will they be punished too, perhaps making them witness their own marriages away from the priests making a new catacomb and legal and moral entanglements? Will families divide further over this?

    6. If some novus ordo catholics want to have their marriage before the new-sspx priests, on the terms they are familiar with in the novus ordo's sacraments, will they be denied? How so, if the new-sspx agreed to the conciliar document arraigning for the same permitted conciliar marriage in the same name of the conciliar church?

    7. By the agreement of both the new-sspx and rome toward this new marriage document, would it not be understood that the marriage in the new-sspx chapels is now understood to be in belief and spirit of the modernist concept of marriage; whether it is mixed with traditional norms or not?

    8. Bishop Fellay has been parading more of late in the halls of the vatican trying to align and ally himself with the conservative modernists (Bishop Schneider...) and the progressive modernists (Cardinal Muller) who asked Bishop Fellay "to help fight against the modernists" in trying to save the conciliar marriages by fighting against their newest conciliar expression of marriage Amoris Laetitia so as to return it to its original morphed form of Vatican II.

    Certainly then, this new marriage document is no surprise. Bishop Fellay will have to arraign himself to what he allies with.

    9. Bishop Fellay did state he is open to a HYBRID mass (here, here, here, and here). So why not HYBRID sacraments?

    10. Who has changed?

    11. In 2012, Bishop Fellay did say he accepted the legitimacy of the novus ordo mass. So will the ecumenism mix further in the new-sspx chapels? Why not if Bishop Fellay already agreed to these things in principle? Practice naturally comes next.

    12. Likewise in 2012, Bishop Fellay also accepted fully the new 1983 Code of Canon law by Vatican II. In it, it says that you can give the Eucharist to non-catholics. Will this soon come to be as in the other compromised trad-groups who went into the conciliar dungeon? Time will tell. When your heart shifts from God, your treasures are found in human sentiment.

    13. Menzingen did announce that they too believe in novus ordo "miracles". Will these "miracles" be apart of their ceremonies at the request of the married couples? What about the vatican II "saints" and "saint" John Paul II...?

    14. What about when Bishop Fellay said he accepted "95%" of vatican II, will the new-sspx allow the novus ordo priest to preach a "little" sermon in the new-sspx chapels before he accepts the marriage vows?

    15. What if the novus ordo priest wanted to offer the "extraordinary mass" on the new-sspx altars, in principle he can, would Bishop Fellay be in contradiction not allow him?

    16. This list can go on and on...with an open door to the conciliar vile.


    "...little by little the notions will be lost, the dogmas will diminish." (Archbishop Lefebvre)
     
  14. Deus Vult

    Deus Vult Well-Known Member

    Good question Machabees - Will the new-sspx even tell them?
    There are unconditionally ordained Novus Ordo priests in their midst already that the laity are unaware of. More than just a few!
    This we know as stated by Fr. Zendejas in New Jersey 3 years ago:

    [46:16]
    Fr. Z: "The same thing that is the case of Monsignor Byrne (N.O. priest in Ridgefield priory) is the the same thing of the priest in La Salette (SSPX boys school in Illinois)... There are like 7 priests already."

    (He's speaking about N.O. priests in the SSPX ordained in the new rite with no conditional ordination in tradition. Also, take into account, this information is old from 2014.)

    [57:55]
    Fr. Z: "They did worse in Ridgefield. They imposed that Mass to the children in the school. Yeah, yeah they did that. They have to go."

    Lady: What Mass did they go?

    Fr. Z: "The monsignor's Mass at the school."
    (meaning the children in the school have to attend the Mass of Novus Ordo priest, Msgr. Byrne in Ridgefield who is now the principal of the school there)

    more of the N.J. conference here:
    http://cor-mariae.com/index.php?threads/hostile-takeover-in-liverpool.4998/#post-9429
     
  15. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    I spoke to some new-sspx people and they "just don't get it". Willed ignorance is more to the design.

    The revelation of this new marriage document I think is a bigger bomb than the so called "Prelature" Bishop Fellay wants. Why? It is one thing to be "recognized" and have petty privileges; it is another to play with God's law and deceive His marital and sacramental institution.

    The other "gratitudes" Bishop Fellay was given to confer with permission the other five sacraments, they were able to stay in its true traditional form (at least for now). This new permission to only attend the marriage ceremony, NOT receive the consent, is a HYBRID sacrament mixed with traditional attachments. Since it is the novus ordo priest who is receiving consent, it is the bishop that decrees which formula and book to follow for the couple. It is effectively a conciliar sacrament of marriage; in the name of the conciliar church!

    It is also clear this marriage document didn't happen over night nor without the participation of the Menzingen administration. It was a planned event!

    Bishop Fellay stated in a May 19, 2016 interview "Little by Little Rome Is Giving Us All We Need for Reconciliation". Within that same interview, he also said that his followers must get on board:

    “It will be quite a work, and it will take time to be able to bring the faithful to realize this new face in the history of the Church, this new reality.”

    So he is saying any remnants of faithful who may have fears, attachments, or uneasiness of conscience holding them back to the "new reality", of course he can only be referring to the accidentals of the faith; not about the faith itself which the Catholic Resistance stands for.

    Now take note what that marriage document is stating. The new provisions are a part of a number of ongoing meetings and initiatives aimed at bringing the Society into full communion:
    • "For some time various meetings and other initiatives have been ongoing in order to bring the Society of St. Pius X into full communion."
    • "Certain that in this way any uneasiness of conscience on the part of the faithful who adhere to the Society of St. Pius X as well as any uncertainty regarding the validity of the sacrament of marriage may be alleviated, and at the same time that the process towards full institutional regularization may be facilitated, this Dicastery relies on Your cooperation."
    The "provisions" in that document made it possible to blend the local bishops and their jurisdictions into the "realization" to ensure the validity of all the marriages celebrated in the new-sspx chapels by appointing his novus ordo priests as the main role at the [new-sspx] marriages and formally receive the consent of the couples. It is only given to the new-sspx priest to offer the nuptial "extraordinary mass" as a subservient role.

    The only other allowance to this provision is if the local Bishop gives permission to the new-sspx priest to receive the consent himself, on a case by case basis, "if there are no priests in the diocese" available to do so.

    The provisions are meant to allay any concerns on the part of the public and the collegiality of bishops helping Menzingen facilitate their "full communion".

    What damage!
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  16. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    Let me emphasize here what is also hidden in plain sight.

    This new Decree mutually agreed to is stating that the novus ordo bishop will now be the official officiator of the sacrament of marriage by his novus ordo priests receiving and witnessing the marriage consent in the new-sspx chapels. Thus, the new-sspx priests can no longer give the sacrament of marriage without the bishop's permission. Therefore, the new-sspx just LOST one of the seven sacraments; they now can only give SIX sacraments of the Church! The seventh (marriage) is only allowed by permission!

    This accepted Decree also gives people to believe that the Traditional sacrament(s) are not required; only a personal choice for the people.

    Where is the state of emergency anymore? Bishop Fellay gave it away in his mind and mutilated it in his followers mind.

    Yet, Bishop Fellay has been running around modern rome spending more time defending the conciliar marriage with conservative views than the traditional marriage he just gave away! (sic)
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
    Vincent likes this.
  17. Vincent

    Vincent Well-Known Member

    That is huge...this new deal with Rome has taken away the SSPX it's claim to a 'crisis or state of emergency' by which they legally operate. Now they are just another lackey traditional group- fully owing their allegiance to Rome, run by an extremely modern Pope. They are fully beholden to the local bishop for the sacrament of marriage. Talk about intentionally making themselves impotent!
     
  18. Vincent

    Vincent Well-Known Member

    Ditto!

    Rome continues (and the SSPX has now learned too) that ambiguous and obtuse language is the best approach when foisting nonsense on people.
     
  19. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    Even the Ecclesia Dei crowd can see through the charade. Here Michael Matt is also trying to point out the Vatican double standard, by saying that if the pope genuinely wishes to regularize the society, then do it. The fact that he is playing these games suggest that he's not really interested in regularization for the sake of souls, but rather for the sake of political control of his opposition.

    And Bishop Fellay "conveys [his] deep gratitude to the Holy Father for his pastoral solicitude"!



    .
     
  20. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

    With Pope Bergoglio’s approval, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has issued a letter respecting “regularization” of the marriages between adherents of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX). In pertinent part the letter provides that:

    “to reassure the conscience of the faithful, despite the objective persistence of the canonical irregularity in which for the time being the Society of St Pius X finds itself;

    “the Holy Father… has decided to authorize Local Ordinaries the possibility to grant faculties for the celebration of marriages of [SSPX] faithful…;

    “the Local Ordinary is to grant the delegation to assist at the marriage to a priest of the Diocese (or in any event, to a fully regular priest), such that the priest may receive the consent of the parties during the marriage rite;

    “followed, in keeping with the liturgy of the Vetus ordo, by the celebration of Mass, which may be celebrated by a priest of the Society;

    “Where the above is not possible, or if there are no priests in the Diocese able to receive the consent of the parties, the Ordinary may grant the necessary faculties to the priest of the Society who is also to celebrate the Holy Mass…”​

    Let us consider briefly the—one must say it—absurdity of these provisions. If the Pope is truly concerned about “reassuring the conscience of the faithful, despite the objective persistence of the canonical irregularity” in SSPX marriages, he could simply decree a radical sanation of every marriage performed by an SSPX priest to date, thus correcting any defect of form arising from lack of delegation by a local ordinary.

    Then, going forward, he could simply grant a universal faculty to SSPX priests to assist at all future weddings of SSPX laity, just as he has already conceded a universal faculty to hear confessions validly even without faculties from a local ordinary. Instead, however, Pope Bergoglio requires a diocesan or other “fully regular” priest to receive the wedding vows while authorizing the SSPX in attendance only to offer the nuptial Mass. The local ordinary is merely granted the discretion, but not given the obligation, to allow an SSPX priest to witness the vows as well if a diocesan or “fully regular” priest is not available. Hence the absurdity of the provisions, which mean the following given the previous grant of the universal faculty to hear confessions:

    - SSPX priests can validly and licitly offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass at a wedding, but cannot validly or licitly witness the wedding vows.
    - SSPX priests can validly and licitly hear the confessions of the bride and groom at any time or place in the world, even in the very church where they are to be married, but cannot validly or licitly witness their vows in that same church on their wedding day.
    - SSPX can offer Masses licitly only immediately following an exchange of wedding vows; otherwise all their Masses are illicit.
    - SSPX can be present to hear the wedding vows of SSPX adherents, but cannot witness those vows.
    - People may confess validly and licitly to an SSPX priest every week, but may not licitly attend their Masses—except at a wedding.
    - SSPX priests act regularly when they hear confessions and offer nuptial Masses, but immediately lapse into irregularity whenever they witness marriage vows or offer a Mass other than a nuptial Mass.

    What we have here, from the Pope who never ceases to condemn the imaginary Pharisaical legalism and casuistry of orthodox Catholics, is an example of legalism and casuistry that would make even the Pharisees blush. The power of the priesthood is sliced like salami and SSPX priests are given some of the slices while others are held back. The sum total of these provisions boils down to a declaration by Pope Bergoglio that henceforth no SSPX marriage may be conducted validly or licitly except within the framework he has just erected. He has not regularized SXPX marriages but rather submitted them to diocesan control.

    Meanwhile, Bergoglio labors ceaselessly to insure that public adulterers living in “second marriages” receive Holy Communion, having just praised the “guidelines” of the Maltese bishops pursuant to Amoris Laetitia, which mandate that sacrilegious Communion be allowed to any public adulterer who deems himself to be “at peace with God.” But there must be no marriages for SSPX adherents who feel at peace with God in having recourse to SSPX clergy unless a designated “regular” priest is physically present to witness the vows. Those who fail to follow the letter of canon law must not be allowed any such peace of mind! Peace of mind is for public adulterers only!

    That squeaking sound you hear is Pope Bergoglio turning the faucet of his boundless mercy just enough to allow a drop or two to trickle onto the parched precincts of the SSPX. The canonical Chinese water torture of these faithful Catholics continues. Meanwhile, public adulterers around the world are marching up to receive Holy Communion and thereby give the appearance of validity to “marriages” that are nothing more than “disgraceful and death-bringing concubinage,” to quote Pope Pius XI.

    Pray for an end to this diabolical farce of a pontificate.


    Source: " The Remnant " via " Adelante la Fe ". Abstract. Original title of the article: "The Merciful Pope stops the marriage of the SSPX and liberates public adulterers" .
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017