Bishop Williamson Believes Valtorta a Gift From God

Discussion in 'Resistance Movement' started by ruthy, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. ruthy

    ruthy Well-Known Member

    In Bishop Williamson's St. Marys, KS conference he recommends the Valtorta again. He believes it is true, authentic and a gift from God. He says, if you read it to your children they will learn their religion and ask all kinds of questions. He said something true..."they will ask all kinds of questions". I bet they will. He said the book is not for everyone. He thinks it was made for our times. It is more detailed than Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich's book and Venerable Mary of Jesus of Agreda's book . Their books were made for their times. When a question was asked about the book being on the forbidden books index, he made the excuse that the devil had a part in that. When pressed more at the end of the conference about the book being on forbidden books list, he doesn't know anything.


    Book review of Valtorta's Poem of Man-God

    Valtorta’s Poem of the Man-God

    Marian T. Horvat, Ph.D. Book review of Peom of the Man-God by Maria Valtorta, 10 volumes, online edition
    [​IMG]

    A friend recently sent me an e-mail asking about Maria Valtorta and her Poem of the Man-God. She received a recent issue of Kyrie Eleison comments of Bishop Richard Williamson titled “Home Reading” (October 20, 2012). In it, he recommends parents read selected chapters of the Poem of the Man-God to children every night.

    He admits the Poem is controversial and has many enemies, but he defends Valtorta’s massive tome (4,000 pages in 10 volumes of supposed visions she received of the life of Christ). The Bishop supports it, despite the objections he lists: that it is riddled with doctrinal errors, that it humanizes Our Lord Jesus Christ, and that the work was placed on the Church’s Index of Forbidden Books in the 1950s.

    He lightly dismisses all the arguments against it and concludes children will learn much about Our Lord and Our Lady from the Poem, which “will fortify a home.”

    “I have not read this book,” my friend continues, “but, for Heaven’s sake, why didn’t Bishop W. recommend reading the wonderful, approved, written-by-a-canonized saint 4-volume City of God by Mother Mary of Agreda? But that is beside the point. I really do wish to know if you approve of the Poem of the Man-God. Even the title upsets my Catholic sensibilities.”

    A humanized Christ

    I believe my friend should follow her good Catholic sense. The very title, the Man-God , expresses the spirit of the work. It is Jesus as a man that Valtorta presents: a babe suckling greedily at his Mother’s breasts, a youth hardly aware of Who He is, a Man who laughs and jokes with His Apostles and is constantly kissing them on the mouth and embracing them closely. Yes, at the least, it is difficult not to suspect this showy Jesus pictured in such way as having homosexual tendencies.

    Valtorta’s natural approach is supposed to attract the modern man to the Life of Christ. It is in tune with the progressivist doctrine that tries to deny the supernatural and instead presents Our Lady as a simple Jewish woman and focuses on Our Lord as being a man “like us.” As Atila Guimaraes points out in Animus Injuriandi I, the progressivist Church aims to de-mythify and de-supernaturalize Christ and His Mother under the guise of presenting a natural “historical” Christ and Mary.” I believe Valtorta’s Jesus and Mary fit this mold.

    [​IMG]
    An illustration of Valtorta's Jesus, a somewhat occult figure with a magnetic gaze
    Valtorta’s Man-God depiction is the opposite of the God-Man portrayed by Anne Catherine Emmerich and Ven. Mary of Agreda, whose life of Christ is presented from an elevated, supernatural vantage point. One cannot help but wonder why the traditionalist Bishop would not recommend these works, instead of the Valtorta tomes, which were officially condemned by the Holy Office and placed on the Index in December 1959 and defined by L’Osservatore Romano of January 6,1960 as “a badly fictionalized life of Jesus.”

    After Vatican II, Paul VI abolished the Index of Forbidden Books, and Valtorta’s supporters claim this nullifies the suppression of 1959. Unfortunately, the official position of the Church today is less than clear, with important Prelates and Catholic figures on both sides of the issue. Obviously, the progressivists, almost to the man, defend it.

    The Poem of the Man-God, I believe, is riddled with banalities, vulgarities, blasphemies and even doctrinal errors. There are endless idle conversations between Our Lord, Our Lady and the Apostles, all on a natural level. I think the best way to confirm these points is simply to cite some texts, which are so revolting that they speak for themselves.

    The quotes that follow are taken from an online edition of The Poem of the Man-God. A 48-page critique written in the 1980s – when the Poem’s popularity surged for a period, as it seems to be resurging now – by a Salesian, Brother James, S.D.B., can be read in its entirety here.

    An Infant conceived with original sin

    Valtorta portrays the Christ Child as a greedy infant of a sentimental Mother. It is difficult to find the respect we owe to Our Lord Jesus Christ in this imaginary immodest description of a nursing scene:

    [​IMG]
    The Man-God presents a naturalistic view of Our Lady and the Christ Child
    “Jesus opens His eyes, sees His Mother and smiles and stretches His little hands toward Her breast.

    “[Mary] ‘Yes, love of Your Mummy. Yes. Your milk. Before the usual time. But You are always ready to suck Your Mummy's breast, My little holy Lamb!’

    “Jesus laughs and plays, kicking His feet out of the blankets, moving His arms happily in a typical childish style, so beautiful to see. He pushes His feet against His Mummy's stomach. He arches His back leaning His fair head on Her breast, and then throws Himself back and laughs, holding with His hands the laces that tie Mary's dress to Her neck, endeavoring to open it. …

    “Mary nurses Him and Jesus avidly sucks His Mother's good milk, and when He feels that only a little is coming from Her right breast, He looks for the left one, laughing while doing so and looking up at His Mother. Then He falls asleep again on Her breast, His rosy round little cheek resting against Her white round breast.” (Vol 1, n. 35, p. 106).

    An Adult with homosexual tendencies

    Valtorta’s Jesus suspiciously displays homosexual tendencies since he is constantly kissing and embracing the Apostles. When Jesus tells James of His approaching Passion, James reacts with great emotion. Jesus comforts him thus:

    “’Come, I will kiss you thus, to help you forget the burden of My fate as Man. Here, I kiss your lips that will have to repeat My words to the people of Israel and your heart that will have to love as I told you, and there, on your temple, where life will cease.’ … They remain embraced for a long time and James seems to doze off in the joy of God's kisses that make him forget his suffering.”

    [​IMG]
    Recently beatified Gabriel Allegra, a Teilhard de Chardin colleague, was a promoter of the Man-God Poem
    When Valtorta describes the “favorite” Apostle John as having the face of a young girl with the “gaze of a lover,” we can hardly avoid having the impression that they have a homosexual relationship. Here Jesus is kissing John to awaken him:

    “Jesus bends and kisses the cheek of John, who opens his eyes and is dumbfounded at seeing Jesus. He sits up and says, ‘Do you need me? Here I am.’ …

    “John, half naked in his under-tunic, because he used his tunic and mantle as bed covers, clasps Jesus’ neck and lays his head between Jesus’ shoulder and cheek.”

    After John professes his belief and love in Jesus as Son of God, “he smiles and weeps, panting, inflamed by his love, relaxing on Jesus’ chest, as if he were exhausted by his ardor. And Jesus caresses him, burning with love Himself.”

    John begs Jesus not to tell the others of what has passed between them. Jesus replies, “Do not worry, John. No one will be aware of your wedding with the Love. Get dressed, come. We must leave.” (Vol. 2, n. 165, pp. 57-58)

    Jesus suggests a love-affair between St. Peter and Our Lady

    Jesus even jokes with impropriety with his apostles. Here, Jesus stands up and calls out loudly and angrily to Peter:

    “‘Come here, you usurper and corrupter!’
    “‘Me? Why? What have I done, Lord?’
    “‘You have corrupted My Mother. That is why you wanted to be alone. What shall I do with you?’
    “Jesus smiles and Peter recovers his confidence. ‘You really frightened me! Now You are laughing.” (Vol. II, n. 199, p. 185)

    Like Luther, Mary thinks: Let us sin to be forgiven

    Some passages are tantamount to heresy. For example, Valtorta presents the child Mary as expressing her desire to be a big sinner in order to merit the grace of Redemption:

    “[Mary]: ‘Tell Me, mummy, can one be a sinner out of love of God?
    “[Anne]: ‘What are you saying, my dear? I don't understand you.’
    “[Mary]:’I mean: to commit a sin in order to be loved by God, Who becomes the Savior. Who is lost, is saved. Isn’t that so? I would like to be saved by the Savior to receive His loving look." (Vol. 1, n. 7, p. 23).

    A sensual Eve tending toward bestiality

    The work is also not without doctrinal errors, such as when Valtorta asserts the sin of Eve was not disobedience, but a sexual act. There is also an insinuation of a tendency toward bestiality in Eve. This erotic description was supposedly made by Jesus:

    “With his venomous tongue Satan blandished and caressed Eve’s limbs and eyes… Her flesh was aroused … The sensation is a sweet one for her. And ‘she understood.’ Now Malice was inside her and was gnawing at her intestines. She saw with new eyes and heard with new ears the habits and voices of beasts. And she craved for them with insane greed. “She began the sin by herself. She accomplished it with her companion.” (Vol. 1, n. 17, p. 49)

    These are some excerpts I offer to my readers to evaluate Valtorta’s work. I believe they are sufficient for the reader to make a judgment of the whole.

    It is thus understandable that the Holy Office placed the work on the Index of Forbidden Books, which is reproduced below. It is also understandable that the Salesian Brother James concluded his critique of the first two volumes with these words: “Poem of the Man-Godis so demonic that without a special grace from Our Lord Jesus, we could be deceived by the seemingly harmless statements by Valtorta’s Jesus, but they enclose lies and heresy, contrary to the teachings of One, Holy Catholic Church.”

    *

    [​IMG]
    Supreme Congregation of
    the Holy Office


    Decree
    Proscription of Books
    Wednesday, December 16, 1959
    The Most Eminent and Reverend Cardinals of the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office, to whom the safeguarding of things of the Faith and Moral is confided, after receiving the previous opinions of the Consultors, have unanimously condemned and ordered that the books by an anonymous author, in four volumes, be inscribed in the Index of Forbidden Books, the first of those books being:

    Il Poema di Gesù [The Poem of Jesus] (Tipografia Editrice M. Pisani);

    followed by,

    Il Poema dell'Uomo-Dio [The Poem of the Man-God], (Ibidem).

    On Friday of that same month and year, the Most Holy and Dignified Lord John XXIII, Pope by the grace of Divine Providence, in an audience given to the Most Eminent and Reverend Cardinal Secretary of the Holy Office, after hearing the report of the Most Reverend Fathers, approved this resolution and commanded that it be published.

    Given in Rome, in the seat of the
    Holy Office on January 5, 1960.
    Sebastian Masala, Notary
     
  2. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
  3. ruthy

    ruthy Well-Known Member

    According to the video, the "good Bishop Williamson", doesn't care if that book was on the forbidden index. Children will benefit from it. What kind of bishop, priest or layperson would recommend this kind of reading to your family. Bishop Williamson was known to say, don't let your children watch the Sound of Music movie. Really? But, read The Poem of the Man God book? I think I will stick to the Sound of Music.
     
  4. ruthy

    ruthy Well-Known Member

    Lines from the book, Poem of the Man-God, “Jesus opens His eyes, sees His Mother and smiles and stretches His little hands toward Her breast.

    “[Mary] ‘Yes, love of Your Mummy. Yes. Your milk. Before the usual time. But You are always ready to suck Your Mummy's breast, My little holy Lamb!’

    “Jesus laughs and plays, kicking His feet out of the blankets, moving His arms happily in a typical childish style, so beautiful to see. He pushes His feet against His Mummy's stomach. He arches His back leaning His fair head on Her breast, and then throws Himself back and laughs, holding with His hands the laces that tie Mary's dress to Her neck, endeavoring to open it. …

    “Mary nurses Him and Jesus avidly sucks His Mother's good milk, and when He feels that only a little is coming from Her right breast, He looks for the left one, laughing while doing so and looking up at His Mother. Then He falls asleep again on Her breast, His rosy round little cheek resting against Her white round breast.”
    (Vol 1, n. 35, p. 106).

    If us mothers try to be modest and discreet when nursing, especially in public, why would I want to read a very detailed, immodest story about a baby nursing, and out loud to my children. Very nice thing to have them picture in their mind a baby, playing with mummy. Strange reading it is. I don't want to read things like that. And this is recommended reading???
     
  5. ruthy

    ruthy Well-Known Member

    I have read The Life of Mary As Seen Through the Mystics, to my children and felt like, this is good. It's humble. It does put the story of our Lord and his life down to our level, more details. But, unlike Valtorta's description,where details make you fee like, ewwwww! So, why the promotion by Bishop Williamson?
     
  6. Jmj2cents

    Jmj2cents Guest

    How puritanical some of he responses are here. It's simple, if you don't care for bishop Williamson then fine move on already. It seems like those who are not getting any advances spiritually think they are advancing spiritually by always criticizing Bishop Williamson or any of the priest who do not follow Fr. Pfiefer and Co. Seriously move on, get over it. Your attacking them constantly is embarrassing. Look ahead and let go of your resentment. I pray for you. Don't read the book. It's simple.
     
  7. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

    No need for you to be embarrassed. Cor Mariae is decidedly biased towards OLOMC Seminary and her priests because they are the only ones under attack from all quarters. It is vital to speak of the doctrinal errors of Bishop Williamson because by them many people are being led into the conciliar church which is not Catholic. We choose not to 'sit on the fence' with you.

    ETA
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  8. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    Not to put into view for discernment and warnings of the recent serious doctrinal errors a bishop of the catholic church, one who says he serves souls in tradition, is folly to the cross of Christ who died for the doctrinal "purity" to honor his Father.

    Not to look at or to point out these errors of Bishop Williamson, as well as the errors of Bishop Fellay, becomes only a human sediment. Isn't the above comment the same as what the neo-sspx followers say about Bishop Fellay? "If you do not like it move on."

    This reminds me of the same words as the people walking by when our Lord was on his Cross expressing the only catholic faith for salvation. "Ah...come on, just come down and come with us. There is nothing 'spiritual' in what you are doing. It is 'embarrassing' to us. Just come down from that doctrinal cross and behave with human sediment. Let's just get along. Ecumenism is the new fad. We can advance together without your silly position of always saying no to us. Come on...just come down from that Cross and submit to the errors of your bishops then all is good for us."
     
    Rose likes this.
  9. Deus Vult

    Deus Vult Well-Known Member



    "If you do not like it move on."


    These are the exact words that were said by the Novus ordo clergy and faithful to the pioneers of the traditional movement, who were warning the blind followers of the N.O. in the 70's and 80's. They were warning that the changes as well as new teachings, and new direction of the N.O. bishops was the beginning of the destruction of their faith. The consequence of which would be the loss of souls.
    Catholics might be able to claim ignorance the first time around, but there's no excuse for traditional Catholics now who should know how they came to be and why they are traditional and not N.O.
    But of course if you have no concern for others and the evil that is looking to devour souls, then your comment fits.
     
  10. Deus Vult

    Deus Vult Well-Known Member

    As Archbishop Lefebvre wrote:
    Catholics in this latter part of the twentieth century have a duty to be more vigilant than their fathers were.
     
  11. Jmj2cents

    Jmj2cents Guest

    What I mean by move on is to stop beating a dead horse. That's all you have. Your whole agenda is to attack instead of growing in charity and Faith. By your fruits you shall know them. It's absurd to spend all your energy on one Bishop. Seriously if you don't agree with him then pay no attention to him.
     
  12. ruthy

    ruthy Well-Known Member

    "How puritanical some of he responses are here. It's simple, if you don't care for bishop Williamson then fine move on already."

    The responses are not puritanical, they are PURE common sense. If Fr. Pfeiffer was recommending that book, followers of Bishop Williamson would not just "move on", with it. They would drag him through the coals, as they should, for recommending it. It is not an innocent book. It is poison. If BW or any priest recommends adding some cyanide to your coffee and have a drink, wouldn't you be concerned with that recommendation? It is dangerous to your health. Would you just let it go and say just don't drink it and "move on"? Would you trust him still?
     
  13. Jmj2cents

    Jmj2cents Guest

    There you go again. How typical. Everything about you people is uncharitable. Attack attack attack. Have you seen me attack OLMC? No. I pray for them and I continue to study and practice my faith. This is not a real catholic forum but a cultish gossip group. I'm out of here. God bless you and I pray and wish the best for Fr. Pfieffer and Fr. Hewko and everyone associated with them.
     
  14. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

    'This is not a real catholic forum but a cultish gossip group'.

    The dishonesty of this statement is evident when, if one takes the trouble to peruse Cor Mariae, it is readily seen to contain all that the Catholic Church teaches from daily Masses, Breviary Readings, Lives of the Saints, countless devotional practices, sermons, links to Catholic Reading, Encyclicals, etc. etc... And to top it off the priceless direction of Archbishop Lefebvre on how to keep the faith during these troubled times.

    I understand you would like your membership deleted. We bid you a fond farewell as you cultishly continue to follow Bishop Williamson and the Pax Priests (so named by Fr. Hewko) down the yellow brick road. We will ask Father Pfeiffer and Father Hewko to pray for you too as we do ourselves. May God keep and bless you and all those you love.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  15. Machabees

    Machabees Well-Known Member

    And this is the real reason for such comments.
    If BW says error, leave him alone; if Fr. P says anything, drag him through the coals. Bishop Williamson of the last few years is the ICON to the conservatists and the trad-ecumenists; so don't touch their leveraged prelate.
     
  16. ruthy

    ruthy Well-Known Member

    To tell the truth is charity. Even if it hurts. To be silent about error is uncharitable.
     
  17. Anand

    Anand Well-Known Member

    I'm curious to know how both the SSPX and the Resistance bishops can justify their "emergency" episcopal consecrations. The former seem to want a deal with the Modernists at all costs, while the latter dont seem to have problems with the New Mass.
     
  18. ruthy

    ruthy Well-Known Member

    Taken from The Recusant Issue 34 page 45 - the book Liberalism Is A Sin by Fr. Felix Sarda Y Salvany


    “ ‘It is all well enough to make war on abstract doctrines,’ some
    may say, ‘but in combating error, be it ever so evident, is it so
    proper to make an attack upon the persons of those who uphold
    it?’ We reply that very often it is, and not only proper but at times
    even indispensable and meritorious before God and men.

    The accusation of indulging in personalities is not spared to Catho-
    lic apologists, and when Liberals and those tainted with Liberalism
    have hurled it at our heads they imagine that we are overwhelmed
    by the charge. But they deceive themselves. We are not so easily
    thrust into the back ground. We have reason and substantial reason on our side. In
    order to combat and discredit false ideas, we must inspire contempt and horror in
    the hearts of the multitude for those who seek to seduce and debauch them. A
    disease is inseparable from the persons of the diseased. The cholera threatening a
    country comes in the persons of the infected. If we wish to exclude it we must
    exclude them. Now ideas do not in any case go about in the abstract; they neither
    spread nor propagate from themselves. Left to themselves, if it be possible to im-
    agine them apart from those who conceive them, they would never produce all the
    evil from which society suffers. It is only in the concrete that they are effective;
    when they are the personal product of those who conceive them. They are like the
    arrows and the bullets which would hurt no one if they were not shot from the bow
    or the gun. It is the archer and the gunner to whom we should give our first atten-
    tion; save for them the fire would not be murderous. Any other method of warfare
    might be liberal, if you please, but it would not be commonsense.

    The authors and propagators of heretical doctrines are soldiers with poisoned
    weapons in their hands. Their arms are the book, the journal, the lecture, their per-
    sonal influence. Is it sufficient to dodge their blows? Not at all; the first thing nec-
    essary is to demolish the combatant himself. When he is
    hors de combat
    , he can do
    no more mischief. ”
    -
    “LIBERALISM IS A SIN” by Fr. Felix Sarda y Salvani, pp. 103
    -
    106
    (The full book is available for free at: www.liberalismisasin.com)
     
  19. ruthy

    ruthy Well-Known Member

    I understand Archbishop Lefebvre consecrating bishops. I understand Bishop Williamson consecrating bishops. I don't understand Bishop Williamson's reasoning though.
     
  20. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member


    See also : http://cor-mariae.com/index.php?resources/liberalism-is-a-sin.67/